Health Care?

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

( STATEMENT )
I am asking a question for clarification, if anyone would like to confirm or disprove my points, then feel free to do so.
( END STATEMENT )

This is a point my wife made to me about the health care bill... BTW, shes in medical billing, so she gets info from sources that may be somewhat credible. First issue she brought up is the employee paying taxes on the portion of their heath-care that the employer pays for the employee. So, say your employer pays 500$ a month for your health care, well the way the government would see it. If the employer didn't "give" you this money then you would have to pay for it yourself, so since the employer is giving you this money then you should pay income tax on it. Now I view what my employer pays for my health insurance as a benefit, which is one of the reasons I work for the employer, I do not consider it income, If it were considered income at this point I should have the right to tell my employer to not provide me with health insurance, but instead include the "500 dollar" a month to my compensation so I could do with it what I want.... at this time this is not the case, I either take their insurance, which they pay, or I do not, in which case I do not receive this benefit.

Second part, AND if you chose not to have insurance for this reason, then the government will supply you with "their" insurance, which of course you will have to pay for, no matter if you like it or not.

Now, I'm sure there's probably a lot more to the two points that I just made, but if there is any truth to them at all, then I think its just wrong in every way to force people to pay for, buy, or be taxed for something that I consider to be a benefit, or a service that I chose not to partake in government or employer provide it dose not matter. Secondly, I feel the majority of Americans were opposed to this bill in the first place... that alone should have prevented if from happening.


Now if this is true, this is another reason I don't like Obama, he backed this bill, and let the democratic controlled congress and senate cram this shit down our throat.

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

This has been bugging me too, YD...I get full insurance through work (I don't pay a dime until I go to the doctor, then I have a really good co-pay) and the thought of being taxed on income that I don't actually have makes no sense. It IS a benefit...much like getting a parking pass so you don't have to pay every day, life insurance through work, or being able to use the internet while at work (assuming the work is done!). If they start taxing people based on the benefit of insurance, what incentive do employers have to provide these sorts of things to their employees? They aren't giving them the money now and, more than likely, won't when/if this is enforced.

Another thing I read just recently, HSA (Health Saving Accounts...money taken out BEFORE tax) are no longer going to be used for over the counter drug purchases. I don't know the reasoning behind this one either (I'm sure it all goes back to money), but I'm against it as well.

I wonder how much of this is FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt)...and how much of it is truth. Scary, either way.

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

Well, at the moment I don't know where to even start to verify some of the things I hear. I discount almost every thing I get in the form of an E-mail, and the ones I even suspect as truth I Snopes it usually to find out its either half truth taken out of context or false altogether.

One of the big reasons I posted here is in hopes that one of use might could somewhat verify what my wife's telling me.

BTW... Your point with the government taxing what should be considered a benefit, if they could do this... that opens the door to a whole lot of other things you could be taxed for. Who's to say since health insurance benefits are taxable, why not other services your employer may be providing, like a discounted membership to a gym, this could be seen as monetary compensation. What about special rates or discounts for a tangible item that your employer may provide as a "benefit" for their employees, almost anything you could dream up could really be considered taxable.

If they are allowed to start down that road... well, you know the old saying, give and inch and they'll take a mile.

[LA_MERC_Shadow]

You are correct on both points. Remember this bill was originally designed to put everyone on a public healthcare system. Now it will just slowly create an environment that only a socialized system can survive in. And when they state that the A.M.A and other healthcare associations supported it you have to realize that they knew this would be passed no matter what so either they support it and get to help set it up the best they can or they were cut out of the picture and would have no saying in the way it will be instituted.

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

BTW... Your point with the government taxing what should be considered a benefit, if they could do this... that opens the door to a whole lot of other things you could be taxed for. Who's to say since health insurance benefits are taxable, why not other services your employer may be providing, like a discounted membership to a gym, this could be seen as monetary compensation. What about special rates or discounts for a tangible item that your employer may provide as a "benefit" for their employees, almost anything you could dream up could really be considered taxable.

If they are allowed to start down that road... well, you know the old saying, give and inch and they'll take a mile.

This is my biggest fear...well, in relation to health care, that is.

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

And when they state that the A.M.A and other healthcare associations supported it you have to realize that they knew this would be passed no matter what so either they support it and get to help set it up the best they can or they were cut out of the picture and would have no saying in the way it will be instituted.

OK, I'm a little confused. I don't know who the A.M.A is, or what any health care organization has to do with the the federal government running health care? I guess my point is, if congress and the senate did not like what they saw they did not have to pass it, thus killing the bill that is causing all these problems?

That is unless they wanted it "which I believe is the case" because every one of these corrupt bastards, and bastardes'es are getting something out of the deal. Power, money, political clout, or something of the sort.

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

I think this was a two fold move by the lefties. The far left want everything provided to people by the gov't. To offset this cost they would have to levy far higher taxes on the working class, OR not give as much to the leaches of our society in the form of Family tax credit that none of us qualify for. What is the penalty for not buying health care? One is that they can fine you or make you not eligible for other gov't handouts. So those of society that now are to "poor" to not be on welfare and/or get the earned income tax credit bullshit thingy, will not be getting that extra 2-4K they do not deserve because they do not buy health care. They are effectively taxing the poor by refusing them those payouts because they know the poor would rather buy a 62" LCD than to provide their family with health care.

I also think Shadow hit the nail on the head. The medical professionals saw the writing on the wall and jumped on board to help shape the bill into something they could live under, rather than get left out in the cold.

[LA_MERC_Shadow]

Well, what will eventually happen if the government keeps this programs is that the insurance companies will eventually opt out of healthcare or fold and then the gov will have it all to themselves. Which will then cause the problems of increasing taxes and rationing. You can't provide the crazy type of healthcare we provide in this country without rationing it. 1/3 of all money spent in medicare is in the last 3mos of life. Does that tell you something? I.E. we know the person is going to die but we'll throw everything at him/her and see if it'll work for a couple days. But the worst thing about this is that when you lower the wages and reimbursement of doctors and other workers you will shift the gifted people from going into that field. Instead of going into healthcare they will go into engineering or somewhere else to have a comfortable life. You will not get the top of the class (well, maybe top of the class that doesn't speak English); you'll get B/C students. Do you trust those people to decide on your health? I don't. There's few and far between of the doctors nowadays that I trust.

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

I also think Shadow hit the nail on the head. The medical professionals saw the writing on the wall and jumped on board to help shape the bill into something they could live under, rather than get left out in the cold.

Opps. my bad, I went back and re-read the statement from shadow, I get it now. I misunderstood what he was saying.

[LA_MERC_Bacowrath]

There is already an experiment in action where the government controls healthcare..... its called the VA. 3 years and still waiting for my surgery to be scheduled.....nuff said :)

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

Baco I do not even have one iota of knowledge about your situation, yet I have a couple friends on VA up here that say it works. Yes it takes longer than shelling out 150k for a procedure, but it works for them. They have to be VERY proactive in their healthcare, but they say they have never been "shafted" by being on VA. I also have a good friend who is a doctor out at Fort Harrison. He gave up a private practice to take that job. I have never really asked him why, but I think he realized less money and a better life means more than a big paycheck. He is much happier after moving out there. This whole healthcare debate boggles me because no matter who you ask on what side of the issue, all you get is doomsday. If we do we will all suffer, if we don't we will all suffer. This is not really a fair level field to make decisions off of. I think all sides are speaking half truths most of the time.
All we have to go off of is stories like Baco's. We know that as fact. Leave the doomsday to the soothsayers.

[LA_MERC_Bacowrath]

Don't know what your friends go to the VA for, but if it is just routine stuff, then ok, its not that bad. Socialized medicine generally works that way. Not too too bad for your routine check-ups, but if you need a specialist...look out! I'm not complaining about my situation, or the VA. I am VERY greatful that it is there, but when the government regulates ANYTHING in an emergency situation, it is going to suck. Friend of mine in England had a heart attack. He went to the ER and the general practitioner treated him to the best of his ability. Sent him home with an appointment to see a Cardiologist in SIX months. Was the earliest appt he could get. He ended up flying to the US to see a Dr. and they told him he should be dead. Had a bypass X3.

In my opinion from what I have seen in while working in the healthcare industry, it seems that the best and brightest fellas used to go to medical school. Now, they go to school for technology...thats where the money is. So we have already had a decline in the brain-pool for new doctors. Pass a socialized medicine law, and the brain-pool will decline by a greater degree as well as the number of doctors being milled out of our retard institutions...gauranteed. I am sure that some good caring folk like your friend will still go into medicine just to care for folk, but believe me.....they are FEW and far between. You might go from fifteen cardiologists in your town to 5 if socialized healthcare is passed.

In conclusion, Obama is a tard and will screw it up. :p


And they all lived happily ever after....well at least untill one of them got a chicken bone caught in their digestive tract, and had to fill out 75 forms and APPLY for proper treatment. Five days later the poor fella died, and six days later got approved for treatment. Because he was approved, and had already passed away, a sub committee was formed to choose a medical review board. The board recommended that they hire a consulting firm that belonged to a senator's son for $700,000 an hour to figure out why the patient died before they were approved. Meanwhile, all medical treatments were put on hold due to the investigation. A plague broke out and wiped out the entire human population. The roaches were the only creatures to survive, and THEY lived happily ever after.

The End....

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

In conclusion, Obama is a tard and will screw it up. :p


And they all lived happily ever after....well at least untill one of them got a chicken bone caught in their digestive tract, and had to fill out 75 forms and APPLY for proper treatment. Five days later the poor fella died, and six days later got approved for treatment. Because he was approved, and had already passed away, a sub committee was formed to choose a medical review board. The board recommended that they hire a consulting firm that belonged to a senator's son for $700,000 an hour to figure out why the patient died before they were approved. Meanwhile, all medical treatments were put on hold due to the investigation. A plague broke out and wiped out the entire human population. The roaches were the only creatures to survive, and THEY lived happily ever after.

The End....

BACO, it stories like the one above that makes me glad you haven't gone anywhere. Dude thats given me something laugh at on friday

Thanks man :)

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

Great story. I lol at that one.