LA_MERC_MadMAX
March 7th, 2009, 03:56 PM
OK - so my buddy David up in NC has bought my AMD build from me. He actually gave me $850 for it, which is more than I was asking on eBay - which is cool.
Now - I want some input on my "new" new build before I do something else stupid :-)
Let me recap what I didn't like about the AMD build I just did, and what pitfalls I want to avoid.
First - I'm not so much sure it's the vented/perforated front that I don't like on the Antec 300 - it actually does a pretty darn good job of keeping dust THERE rather than inside the system so far. My biggest complaint w/ the 300 is the noise. I may have gotten a bad case, but this is the most noisy thing I've ever heard. It's NOT the fan noise that bothers me - hell, I have a desk fan behind me that is louder "fan noise" wise, it's the "roar". I can put my hand HARD on the top and the left side of the case and it hushes - but let it go, and it starts "roaring" again - and it's a sympathetic roar, and is literally about to drive me batty (like I'm not already).
As for the build itself, there are lots of things about the AMD Phenom II that I *really* like, and a lot of things I *really* don't like. I honestly think I'm going to have to stick with Intel for now. I think AMD got a lot of things right with this chip (compared to the original Phenom), but there are still some things that need work. For example, it's no longer "Cache starved" like the original Phenom, but it's STILL considerably slower clock-for-clock than an Intel Core2 chip (not even talking i7 yet). For example, I've been comparing single-threaded benches w/ my work PC.
At work I have a 3.0GHZ Core2Duo e6850 and the AMD finally catches up to it, clock for clock when at the highest stable OC I've been able to hit which was 3.58GHz (and that includes a reference clock OC AND a northbridge OC).
The cores themselves run pretty cool, considering, however the "platform" as a whole runs very hot - there is a LOT of HOT air that gets vented out of the top fan of this Antec 300! I also don't like the way it handles power management. Cool'n'Quiet does NOT work as well as EIST, and it CAN'T be enabled when OC'ed. Also, when running stock, and C'n'Q is enabled it's very slow to throttle between states - very bad.
So here are some of the things I'm considering for the re-build, and would like some educated second opinions on before I pull the trigger and order anything. Now, bear in mind, I'm pretty bull-headed and will likely still do whatever I want anyway, but I want to know what y'all think anyway :-)
First and foremost (for me) is the enclosure. As I said, I'm not as weary of the "open" or vented front as I was initially, so here are some cases I am considering (note that with the Antec's right now on NewEgg there are some pretty good combo deals w/ Antec PSU's as well - on the non Antec cases I would prolly go w/ a Corsair or PC Power & Cooling PSU)...
Antec P182 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129025):
This was my initial "First Choice" when I first started planning all of this. There are MANY things I like about this case, and a few things I don't. First, I like the efforts Antec has taken to make it quiet - there is rubber trim everywhere (including the PSU mount) and sound deadening material on the side panels. I do have the advantage of seeing and hearing these in person before buying, and even w/ the fans on high, it's pretty doggone quiet - just "air noise" (which I can live with just fine). What I don't like? I don't like cases with doors (in general), but at least w/ the P182, it can swing all the way open flush w/ the side. Also, I don't like the fact that if I put a fan in the front fan slot in the upper thermal chamber, I can no longer use that HDD Bay. I also don't like the fact that there is a fan right near the HDD enclosure in the bottom chamber. Also, there doesn't look like a lot of room between the PSU, the "bottom" fan and the HDD bay, and although there is plenty of space for cable management behind the MOBO tray, I think that there could be a cable nightmare in that bottom chamber, and I've been reading that a lot of people end up taking that fan out, which I Don't really want to do, since I would use the bottom bay for my HDD's and put a fan in the top.
Antec 900 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021):
I know Henry and Parker have this, and you both have indicated that you are pretty happy with them. My biggest question to you two is even though there will be wind noise, are there any vibrations or "roars" that go on endlessly? Also, how loud is that top 200MM fan, on say it's medium setting?
Cooler Master CM690 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137):
This is what Jason (Maverick) just built his new system in. I kinda like it, but at the same time it did seem a little cramped - we had to yank out much of the "cable management system", also, I'm not crazy about all the extra fan holes that are punched out, that I will probably never fill. Still very much up in the air on this on...
Lian-Li Lancool PC-K1B (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112192):
Seems nice - clean lines, looks very understated. Again, not sure about this one. Air flow might now be the best, and it looks like it could easily be noisy.
Thermaltake V9 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133071):
Reminds me of the Antec 900, but w/ only 1 fan in front. I like the Red LED...not much more to say. I would probably take the 900 over this due to the $40 PSU discount, but wanted to mention it since I was at least considering it at one time in case someone loves it for some reason.
Now for some more "important stuff".
Video Card...
I have right here next to me a perfectly good XFX Nvidia 9600GT that I could put in this new build. Honestly, I think it would do me fine, and save me a few $$$ for now. I only play at 1680x1050 resolution, and I really only play CS Source, Unreal Tounament III and OCCASIONALLY get into Battlefield 2 everyone once in a while. Should I upgrade? Is there some "killer game" I should go buy if I *do* upgrade?<
Now, for the platform itself - Core2Quad, or Core i7.
This is a tough one. Here are some thoughts I've had on the matter. First the Core i7 is very fast at "some" things, and no faster than the Core2Quad at others. The Core i7 can extract files really fast, and it's really fast at video encoding, neither of which I do much of. However!, I think it would be somewhat more Future-proof as new software is coded to take advantage of it. Also, I like the idea of it having 8 virtual threads since Hyperthreading has been re-enabled on these chips. In a lot of ways, it reminds me of when the Pentium 4 first came out - it was a really fast chip, but no software knew how to make good use of it, and by the time the software had caught up, the original Pentium 4's were dinosaurs.
Also, I don't think Intel will stick w/ Socket 1366 - I have a gut feeling based on some things I've read that it's going to be "Socket 423" (or AMD's Socket 754) all over again. Also the platform is very immature, it seems, based on reviews a lot of the motherboards have various problems, and are all overpriced compared to what a similar P45 based board would cost. But there is still part of me that feels like buying a Core2Quad system would be like buying "day old bread". I'm really up in the air on this one.
As for the Core2Quad, it's a solid, stable platform that's been around for a long time, it's the fastest thing on the block w/ today's software, and I could get a heck of a lot more PC (and perhaps go ahead and get a nicer GPU) if I went this route. If I go i7, I would almost certainly be sticking that 9600GT in it for sure! Also, although there are DDR3 boards available in Socket 775, reading online and looking at benchmarks it seems it makes ZERO difference over DDR2 - if ANYTHING 1fps and/or a higher score in Sandra (and who really cares about that anyway?), so I could either get more memory or simply put the extra towards a new GPU and/or back in the bank.
SO - now that all of that is out there, what do you all think? I'm just looking for general opinions here.
Now - I want some input on my "new" new build before I do something else stupid :-)
Let me recap what I didn't like about the AMD build I just did, and what pitfalls I want to avoid.
First - I'm not so much sure it's the vented/perforated front that I don't like on the Antec 300 - it actually does a pretty darn good job of keeping dust THERE rather than inside the system so far. My biggest complaint w/ the 300 is the noise. I may have gotten a bad case, but this is the most noisy thing I've ever heard. It's NOT the fan noise that bothers me - hell, I have a desk fan behind me that is louder "fan noise" wise, it's the "roar". I can put my hand HARD on the top and the left side of the case and it hushes - but let it go, and it starts "roaring" again - and it's a sympathetic roar, and is literally about to drive me batty (like I'm not already).
As for the build itself, there are lots of things about the AMD Phenom II that I *really* like, and a lot of things I *really* don't like. I honestly think I'm going to have to stick with Intel for now. I think AMD got a lot of things right with this chip (compared to the original Phenom), but there are still some things that need work. For example, it's no longer "Cache starved" like the original Phenom, but it's STILL considerably slower clock-for-clock than an Intel Core2 chip (not even talking i7 yet). For example, I've been comparing single-threaded benches w/ my work PC.
At work I have a 3.0GHZ Core2Duo e6850 and the AMD finally catches up to it, clock for clock when at the highest stable OC I've been able to hit which was 3.58GHz (and that includes a reference clock OC AND a northbridge OC).
The cores themselves run pretty cool, considering, however the "platform" as a whole runs very hot - there is a LOT of HOT air that gets vented out of the top fan of this Antec 300! I also don't like the way it handles power management. Cool'n'Quiet does NOT work as well as EIST, and it CAN'T be enabled when OC'ed. Also, when running stock, and C'n'Q is enabled it's very slow to throttle between states - very bad.
So here are some of the things I'm considering for the re-build, and would like some educated second opinions on before I pull the trigger and order anything. Now, bear in mind, I'm pretty bull-headed and will likely still do whatever I want anyway, but I want to know what y'all think anyway :-)
First and foremost (for me) is the enclosure. As I said, I'm not as weary of the "open" or vented front as I was initially, so here are some cases I am considering (note that with the Antec's right now on NewEgg there are some pretty good combo deals w/ Antec PSU's as well - on the non Antec cases I would prolly go w/ a Corsair or PC Power & Cooling PSU)...
Antec P182 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129025):
This was my initial "First Choice" when I first started planning all of this. There are MANY things I like about this case, and a few things I don't. First, I like the efforts Antec has taken to make it quiet - there is rubber trim everywhere (including the PSU mount) and sound deadening material on the side panels. I do have the advantage of seeing and hearing these in person before buying, and even w/ the fans on high, it's pretty doggone quiet - just "air noise" (which I can live with just fine). What I don't like? I don't like cases with doors (in general), but at least w/ the P182, it can swing all the way open flush w/ the side. Also, I don't like the fact that if I put a fan in the front fan slot in the upper thermal chamber, I can no longer use that HDD Bay. I also don't like the fact that there is a fan right near the HDD enclosure in the bottom chamber. Also, there doesn't look like a lot of room between the PSU, the "bottom" fan and the HDD bay, and although there is plenty of space for cable management behind the MOBO tray, I think that there could be a cable nightmare in that bottom chamber, and I've been reading that a lot of people end up taking that fan out, which I Don't really want to do, since I would use the bottom bay for my HDD's and put a fan in the top.
Antec 900 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021):
I know Henry and Parker have this, and you both have indicated that you are pretty happy with them. My biggest question to you two is even though there will be wind noise, are there any vibrations or "roars" that go on endlessly? Also, how loud is that top 200MM fan, on say it's medium setting?
Cooler Master CM690 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137):
This is what Jason (Maverick) just built his new system in. I kinda like it, but at the same time it did seem a little cramped - we had to yank out much of the "cable management system", also, I'm not crazy about all the extra fan holes that are punched out, that I will probably never fill. Still very much up in the air on this on...
Lian-Li Lancool PC-K1B (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112192):
Seems nice - clean lines, looks very understated. Again, not sure about this one. Air flow might now be the best, and it looks like it could easily be noisy.
Thermaltake V9 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133071):
Reminds me of the Antec 900, but w/ only 1 fan in front. I like the Red LED...not much more to say. I would probably take the 900 over this due to the $40 PSU discount, but wanted to mention it since I was at least considering it at one time in case someone loves it for some reason.
Now for some more "important stuff".
Video Card...
I have right here next to me a perfectly good XFX Nvidia 9600GT that I could put in this new build. Honestly, I think it would do me fine, and save me a few $$$ for now. I only play at 1680x1050 resolution, and I really only play CS Source, Unreal Tounament III and OCCASIONALLY get into Battlefield 2 everyone once in a while. Should I upgrade? Is there some "killer game" I should go buy if I *do* upgrade?<
Now, for the platform itself - Core2Quad, or Core i7.
This is a tough one. Here are some thoughts I've had on the matter. First the Core i7 is very fast at "some" things, and no faster than the Core2Quad at others. The Core i7 can extract files really fast, and it's really fast at video encoding, neither of which I do much of. However!, I think it would be somewhat more Future-proof as new software is coded to take advantage of it. Also, I like the idea of it having 8 virtual threads since Hyperthreading has been re-enabled on these chips. In a lot of ways, it reminds me of when the Pentium 4 first came out - it was a really fast chip, but no software knew how to make good use of it, and by the time the software had caught up, the original Pentium 4's were dinosaurs.
Also, I don't think Intel will stick w/ Socket 1366 - I have a gut feeling based on some things I've read that it's going to be "Socket 423" (or AMD's Socket 754) all over again. Also the platform is very immature, it seems, based on reviews a lot of the motherboards have various problems, and are all overpriced compared to what a similar P45 based board would cost. But there is still part of me that feels like buying a Core2Quad system would be like buying "day old bread". I'm really up in the air on this one.
As for the Core2Quad, it's a solid, stable platform that's been around for a long time, it's the fastest thing on the block w/ today's software, and I could get a heck of a lot more PC (and perhaps go ahead and get a nicer GPU) if I went this route. If I go i7, I would almost certainly be sticking that 9600GT in it for sure! Also, although there are DDR3 boards available in Socket 775, reading online and looking at benchmarks it seems it makes ZERO difference over DDR2 - if ANYTHING 1fps and/or a higher score in Sandra (and who really cares about that anyway?), so I could either get more memory or simply put the extra towards a new GPU and/or back in the bank.
SO - now that all of that is out there, what do you all think? I'm just looking for general opinions here.