Red or Green?

[LA_MERC_FragFood]

Ok, like everyone else I'm about to pull the trigger on a new rig. Mine's getting a bit long in the tooth and by Gawd, I want a new one. Got everything figured out, just torn between video cards. High level question - nVidia or ATI?

I've used both, never had a problem with either, but I've always hung out at the lower end of the market. This time around I'll be going with either an ATI 4870 or an nVidia 260 something or other. Nothing factory overclocked or anything, just the straight up GPU and card. 1GB RAM is a requirement for the future, and I won't be running SLI/Crossfire anytime soon (unless there's gonna be a really cool game that one of these cards can't handle).

Prices at this level, especially w/ rebates, etc., are about the same. Either will be PCIe 2.x. Browsing the Egg has shown that it's a tossup as to popularity. My old 6800 non G/T/X 128MB card has stood me in good stead over the past couple years, but the AGP has prevented me from upgrading at all. Kinda like my Socket 939 processor has.

Sooooo... Upgrade time! Bleeding edge, here I come... w00t! :nox

I plan on this thing lasting me a minimum of 3 years before needing to look at another "guts swap."

...and yes, everyone, I'm sticking with AMD, for better or worse. I can't afford a frickin' Core i7.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

If you are getting an AMD - get an ATI - 'nuff said :-)

You probably saw my thread - just build a Phenom II (940 Black Edition - OC'ed to 3.4GHz) w/a HD4830 (OCed to 700/1185) - but, the 4870 is a rocking card - there is also the 4870x2 with 2GPU's (basically Crossfire on a single card).

Value for the dollar, right now you can't get any better than AMD/ATI (on both the CPU and GPU fronts)...

So - what are the rest of your specs? Phenom II I hope if you are going w/ AMD...

Also - if you are getting a Phenom II - make sure you get a board w/ either a 790GX or 790FX northbridge and make sure it has the 750 Southbridge...Paired with a Phenom II and an AMD 48xx graphics card you'll have a "Dragon Platform".

[LA_MERC_FragFood]

Basic specs are going to be a socket AM3 mobo (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128378) w/ 8GB of DDR3/1600 running XP 64, Phenom II x3 720 Black/AM3 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649) (3 cores @ 2.8 stock, 6mb cache, very overclockable). After further review, I'll probably go with a single Radeon 4850 1GB card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125258) to start, then Crossfire another when necessary. Not as bleeding edge as originally intended, but plenty of room for upgrading and save a few bills in the process. AM3's pretty mature as a platform, and rather than waiting I figgered I'd get in more toward the ground floor. Quad cores at higher speed can wait for now, since I've been doing quite well with a single core, thanks...

Should still blow my 6800AGP/2GB PC3200/A64 FX55 rig outta the water.

Should get video performance beyond a 260 if Crossfired, and if something new and nifty comes out, I won't feel bad about spending all the dough on something that suddenly is out of date. 4850's a good value right now, and would give me a Dragon platform to work with. Draws less power as well, so I may not have to upgrade my PSU - the card draws more than my 6800, but the CPU draws about the same as my FX55. My current setup only draws around 230 watts at idle, and that leaves me with plenty of headroom. As long as I have all the necessary connectors, that is...

[LA_MERC_DocSparky]

I know how long you've had your last system, so it's pretty cool you get to pull the trigger on a new system. BTW, it would seem that drivers would be much easier to get with 64-bit Vista rather the XP 64. I've been running Vista 64 for a while now and have been very happy with it.

Don't forget to pick one of the dual slot video cards. My single slot 9800GT dumps a lot of heat into my case. Not a problem so far (decent ventilation), but why push it.

New build = Saaaaweeet!

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

+1 for Vista x64 over XP x64!

That x3 720 is an awesome deal too - and yeah - the PhenII's are overclockable as crap. I could push my 940 WAY further than where it's at, but I'm at stock voltages now - any more and I have to start upping the CPU VCore, and I'd rather just keep it where it's at. 3.4GHz is plenty fast enough, and by the time it's not, I'll probably have a new system :-0

Also - the 4850 will serve you well - my 4830 (OC'ed) is about the same performance wise as a stock 4850 - should handle anything you throw at it.

[LA_MERC_FragFood]

I know how long you've had your last system, so it's pretty cool you get to pull the trigger on a new system. BTW, it would seem that drivers would be much easier to get with 64-bit Vista rather the XP 64. I've been running Vista 64 for a while now and have been very happy with it.

Don't forget to pick one of the dual slot video cards. My single slot 9800GT dumps a lot of heat into my case. Not a problem so far (decent ventilation), but why push it.

New build = Saaaaweeet!

The card I'm looking at is passively cooled but according to some of the reviews I've read actually runs COOLER than many actively cooled 4850s. See the link above for the card. I;'ve got three 120mm fans blowing a torrent of air through my case so passive may work out just fine. Re: Vista 64 vs. XP 64 - I've been using XP at home and (some) Vista at work. I just hate the GUI and the way that Windows Explorer works in Vista. Plus I already HAVE XP 64, just never got around to installing it. The rest of my hardware is pretty mainstream, so as long as it'll run VMWare (it should), my backup software (it does), Firefox (yep) and my email program (also yes) along with the games I'm playing (??) I'm cool with sticking with the XP stuff. That might change once the release version of 7 comes out. I've not looked too deeply into neutering Vista to look/act like XP. Doable? Completely?

[LA_MERC_DocSparky]

I hear there are a lot of issues with XP 64 drivers. On top of that, don't expect companies to update them. The target will be Vista 64 going forward for software developers (in general). You might consider trying out the Win 7 beta and see if the Windows Explorer works for you. GUIs are always a personal thing, but technically either Vista 64 or Win 7 will be much easier to maintain. Maybe Jason will have some good tips on tweaking Vista's GUI since he's been diving into a lot of that recently.

[LA_MERC_FragFood]

Ahhhh, crap. I was hoping to not have to buy another OS... Linux isn't mainstream enough (spelled "G A M I N G") yet for me to consider it more than a novelty for my main box, though I DO run it on an old laptop (Puppy Linux on a PIII 700). I may have to look into 64 Ultimate so I can move it to a new machine as necessary and keep downgrade rights, and I think MS is going to offer Win7 upgrades, if I recall some things I read a week or so ago.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Man - it's your rig - nothing we can say will change that.

Vista *will* perform better on that rig than XP x64 will - it will manage 8GB of RAM, and processor scheduling much better. Superfetch really does a lot to optimize performance - applications load almost instantly and you seldom have to go to disk. Also - you will never have DirectX 10 on XP x64, and all your graphics drivers, etc. will always better better optimized for Vista and beyond...

I hated Vista too - I ran Linux for over a year because I hated Vista - but now, that I've used it and gotten used to it, I wouldn't want to give up Aero - and all the stuff that goes with it.

I tried XP x64 several times, and it just didn't perform the way I wanted...

P.S. - if you hate the GUI in Vista you are going to plain out despise Windows 7.

I'm running Vista at home and Windows 7 beta at work - both are the way of the future.

But anyway - it's your rig - run what makes you comfortable. My advice though, is to load Vista and just get used to it.

[LA_MERC_FragFood]

Well, poo. Looks like I'll need to pop for Fista. At least that will be offset by a reduction in RAM pricing. A little more poking around shows that, like my existing board, filling all of the slots with double sided RAM will drop the speed from 1600 to 1333, so I'm going to go ahead and drop to 1333 in the first place and save a few bucks. Can't find 4GB 1600 sticks right now, and I'm sure they'd be very expen$ive at this point. If I need more in the future, I'm sure DDR3 will have dropped by then.

[LA_MERC_DocSparky]

If you are going to do Vista, I have a NFR copy of Vista Ultimate (32 or 64bit) that I got at a MS event. I was holding onto it for a build, but since Windows 7 will be out this year you are welcome to it. I have to wait a little while for my next build anyway.

[LA_MERC_FragFood]

SOLD! (taken?)

Thanks!

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

I just wanted to throw in the fact that the GTX cards seem better rated than the competition. Hence the reason I ran with the GTX285. 2 GTX285's sli'd will outperform the GTX295, and not a card out there touches the GTX295 right now. I think Nvidia did a good job with the GTX2xx platform. My .02 anyway.

Good to hear on the build Frag.

[LA_MERC_FragFood]

Yeah, but couldn't really justify the cost differential. AMD/ATI combo's going to be good, and at the level of gaming I do, a 260 would be overkill. Hadda pay for that other 4GB of RAM somewhere, y'know? By the time I need the capability of a 2xx class nVidia, they'll have come 'way down in price, and I'll be able to pick up another 4850 ATI for a song to SLI, er, uh, Crossfire.

[LA_MERC_Wetzny]

Excellent post people.... Now can we do it in EngRish? :stick

[LA_MERC_Spark]

I would buy nVidia and I would buy it from XFX. I have purchased probably upwards of 100+ video cards from them. The only problems I've had have been replaced in a timely fashion with very little effort. ATI sucks bawls as far as I'm concerned. Their drivers package BLOWS like the Creative Labs. I have thrown in the trash about 50 Sapphire ATI cards. Now.. that was a LONG time ago.. Now with AMD involved things may be different. Just haven't had a reason to jump back.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Spark - things are much different now - I was also an XFX+Nvidia fan, but I'm blown away by what my $100 HD4830 is capable of.

I *still* like the Nvidia driver package better, but I think it's simply because I'm more used to it - I'm coming around :-)

My only reason for going ATI, is I wanted the "Dragon Platform" with my new Phenom II. I left a perfectly good XFX Nvidia 9600GT in my Core2Duo that will probably never see another game (aside from Mom playing on Pogo, but yeah, that doesn't count)...

[LA_MERC_Spark]

I have like 6 comps lol! The latest has a P5N32-E sli board from ASUS and it is a complete pile. I have two of them. Both garbage. I have tried several different brands of memory, HDD, flashed it, and nothing will keep it running. It will be fine for a few hours and then suddenly reboot. Stupid VISTA will not produce a crash dump worth a ****, and I'm just done with the thing. I was actually going to try and call ASUS today just to let them know what a POS this thing is! lol! Anyway.. that rig has two 9800gt's. My main rig started with 7600GTX's which were bumped to 7900GTX's and now to 8800 GT's the alpha dog series. It works fine still. Everything I have has been bumped to Nvida. Even my ubuntu rig. The Nvida card works great with it too. Like I said.. It has been a while, but after finding such a good company and solid driver support I just haven't had any reason to go back. of course I said the same thing about intel at one point and now I have a quad core rig.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Everything I have has been bumped to Nvida. Even my ubuntu rig.

Nvidia is always the way to go (for now) with a Linux box - ATI Linux drivers suck rotten eggs big time!

The "radeonhd" opensource driver is coming along quite nicely, but as for closed source drivers for Linux, Nvidia win HANDS DOWN!

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

GTX GTX GTX GTX!:stick

Did I mention that I love my GTX285. Oh BTW- I am ordering that PhenomII processor this week. Daddy needs.