Windows 7 Beta

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Anyone else tried it out yet?
Apparently the "public release" didn't go so well today, but I actually got it yesterday from MSDN before the rush. I'm running it now - was planning to re-do my machine anyway.

So far, I'm not sure - I know it's beta and all, but I was really expecting better from what I'd read so far. The desktop itself feels like it's a weird mesh of Vista/Mac/KDE - kinda odd - I do hate the new taskbar with a passion as well.

Any other thoughts?

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Ok - I installed...I played around...enough of this for now. Linux anyone???

:D

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

HEh...I've been reading that it's just a tweaked Vista. Is the menu bar stuff like in Office 2k7? I can't STAND that bar and REALLY wish there was a way to make things go back to the 2k3 style (you know...normal). I'm dreading the day when I have to order new laptops for 30 attorneys who have NO CLUE how to run the new menus...

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

I'm dreading the day when I have to order new laptops for 30 attorneys who have NO CLUE how to run the new menus...

LOL.. well, thats job security... granted it may not be all that desirable to be "THAT GUY" but hey, at least you will be in demand :)

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

HEh...I've been reading that it's just a tweaked Vista. Is the menu bar stuff like in Office 2k7? I can't STAND that bar and REALLY wish there was a way to make things go back to the 2k3 style (you know...normal). I'm dreading the day when I have to order new laptops for 30 attorneys who have NO CLUE how to run the new menus...

The menu bar in several windows apps (such as mspaint and wordpad) will remind you of the Office 2007 menu-bar, but it's a "bit different".

The whole thing just felt odd too me. I honestly can't put my finger on it. I really expected more of a "Vista+1" kinda thing, but this was very different. I'm not sure if I can say "good" or "bad", but I didn't particularly like it.
I think the taskbar is going to confuse the hell out of "regular users" - it's nothing like anything they would have ever used before. I can see people opening a bunch of windows and not being able to find them, because all they will see is an Icon for the app (rather than buttons for each window as they do now) until they "hover" over the icon and get the thumbnail previews of the Windows associated w/ it.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

For those interested in trying it out, MS has re-released it to the public (I'm assuming with better infrastructure in place to handle the load).

Here is the direct download link:
(32-bit) http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/3/3/633118BD-6C3D-45A4-B985-F0FDFFE1B021/EN/7000.0.081212-1400_client_en-us_Ultimate-GB1CULFRE_EN_DVD.ISO

(64-bit) http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/3/3/633118BD-6C3D-45A4-B985-F0FDFFE1B021/EN/7000.0.081212-1400_client_en-us_Ultimate-GB1CULXFRE_EN_DVD.ISO

Here is a link to get a key
(32-bit) https://www.microsoft.com/betaexperience/productkeys/win7-32/enus/default.aspx
(64-bit) https://www.microsoft.com/betaexperience/productkeys/win7-64/enus/default.aspx

Enjoy! I tried loading it native - wasn't happy - I'm going to load it in Virtual Box just to play around personally.

[LA_MERC_DocSparky]

I've got the DVD and Key, but I'm waiting for the HTPC to be vacant to try it out there. I want to see whether the media center portion is improved. I hear that QAM support is built-in. This will allow me more free HD channels.

I'm pretty happy with Vista at this point though.

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

I am a Vista fan. I think the third parties dropped the ball more than Microsoft. Ill download tonight, but I think I will not be impressed.

[LA_MERC_M@lACHi]

I just installed it on my gaming rig, and so far, I like the look and feel better that what Vista felt like when it first came out. The task bar is weird, but it is growing on me (see pic). The ribbon menus do not bother me, actually I prefer them now. My computer does seem to be a lot more responsive. The memory utilization is better. IE 8 on the other hand....oh boy. I have been running the earlier beta on my work laptop when it first came out, and even it ran better that Vista.

I like the UAC everywhere except at the command prompt. I had to install software that required an command line switch. I had to turn UAC off to get it to work.

The Library is a different take to the user profile. And the homegroup is new to the networking of home computer to share music, pictures, etc. I will have to play with that.

If you like the Windows 2000 Start Menu, MS has decided to remove that old fashioned part from this OS (so far I have not found it.)

More to come.....

Whatever you do, please see this (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/961367) if you are concerned about your MP3 files. :)

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

M@l - since you also installed it on a machine that was running Vista, how did your WEI scores change? I'm wondering why they didn't keep the same "scale" and just add to it (to grow beyond the 5.9 barrier), but it seems to be a totally different scale.
On my system I went from:
Vista:
CPU = 5.7
Mem = 5.9
Gaming Graphics = 5.9
Aero Graphics = 5.9
Disk = 5.7

To Windows 7:
CPU = 5.9
Mem = 5.9
Gaming Graphics = 7.9
Aero Graphics = 7.9
Disk = 5.9

I'm also thinking there was some sort of chipset driver issue for me - I had really slow USB transfer speeds (sending some Screenshots I took to a flash drive before re-formatting) and contrary from almost everything I've read everywhere it felt slower on my machine than Vista did. Seemed to be some I/O latency - couldn't put my finger on it. Memory usage seemed a little lighter...Kernel memory alone was about half of Vista.
This machines about 6mo. old, but I'd gotten used to a particular level of performance under Vista and/or Linux and I was shocked that 7 was slower...

I might try sticking an extra HDD in my work machine Monday and loading it up to see if it handles it any differently. I AM impressed at how well it vitualizes though - Vista never did virtualize well for me, but Windows 7 is running awesome in a VirtualBox VM w/ 2GB of RAM allocated too it.

I'm really more excited about Server 2008 R2 (glad to see that 32bit umbilical cord cut) than Windows 7 - I've just grown to like Linux more on my desktop...and now VirtualBox supports 3D in a VM, so I'm all set for CS :-)

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

LOL...


Workarounds for the MP3 file corruption issue

If you do not apply this update, the most effective workaround is to set the properties of all MP3 files to read-only on local hard disks, removable drives, and network shares that can be accessed by Windows 7 Beta computers. To do this, follow these steps:

Note the bold Italic... So if someone sets up a windows 7 beta machine in a network and it can access MP3 files on another computer, server, or what have you. Then without the "Update" it stands a good chance that it may delete several seconds from the beginning of any MP3 file it opens.

That my friend is good old ACS Style programing :stick

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Hey, who needs the first few seconds of a song anyway...

I kid...I kid...

:-D

[LA_MERC_M@lACHi]

My scores did improve from 5.2 to 5.8. I need to ask my MS contact in Charlotte about the WEI. The benchmark algorithms were tweaked a great deal and I was expecting this, but I never did find the reasoning or a reason was not explained for such a change. The scale now maxes out at 7.9. I expect it had to do that most new games and some apps were already coming out with a maxed out recommended score. I would not be surprised if some people actually get a lower score. (But do not think of it as lesser, just re-adjusted). My usb speeds were about the same (I copied everything to usb hard drives and flash drives before reformatting and then copied them back once Win7 was installed. I would suspect an updated chipset driver is needed. Did you run Windows update manually after installation? There were tons of pre-release drivers for both my laptop and desktop.

I too cannot wait to get back to the office and load up Win2k8R2. I want to see if MS really did the stuff to Hyper-V that they said they were going to do. (I actually went through a months worth of R&D between Hyper-V and VMWare ESX for a virtualization project that I in the middle of...I went with ESX. :)

[LA_MERC_M@lACHi]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! ACS... HAHAHAHAHA!!!...



LOL...



Note the bold Italic... So if someone sets up a windows 7 beta machine in a network and it can access MP3 files on another computer, server, or what have you. Then without the "Update" it stands a good chance that it may delete several seconds from the beginning of any MP3 file it opens.

That my friend is good old ACS Style programing :stick

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

I wondered if you were going to catch that one :)

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Hey now...

:-)

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Well, last night I decided to re-load it natively after playing around in a Virtual Machine for a while - I did a windows update and it pulled in new drivers for my USB controller, so I think that'll resolve my only real issue.

I think this'll be a real winner overall.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Loaded it up on my Work PC too (yes, I am that brave) and everything seems to be working fine so far.

The WEI scores make no sense though - My Work PC did go down some, and the hardware between this PC and my home PC are almost identical except for Video Card (although I built the Home PC, and the Work PC is a Dell Precision Workstaion T3400).

[LA_MERC_Onji]

wow, color me impressed. we loaded this up on an old laptop we had here.
Celeron 1.4ghz, 512mb ram
It installed quick, loaded ALL drivers, and its moving pretty good!
I was expecting it to be a slideshow, but man.

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

So first impressing Onji, is its not a resource hog?

[LA_MERC_Onji]

i havent tried to do anything really demanding on it yet, but overall it seems to doign very well resource wise. i have to get used to that new taskbar though.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

It's running great on my Work PC - everything works - even AV software (we just switched to Trend Office scan, and the x64 installer worked fine).

Home is another story - I can't get VirtualBox to run :-(
I'm just tired of messing around w/ crap, so I loaded WinXP x64 edition - it freaking flies with 8GB of RAM ;-)

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Onji - I've already gotten used to the new taskbar - I kinda like it...I do have a MacBook Pro through work as well, so I've gotten used to the Dock in OSX and I think that helped me adapt...it's so similar in how it handles applications/icons, etc.

[LA_MERC_M@lACHi]

Loaded it up on my Work PC too (yes, I am that brave) and everything seems to be working fine so far.

The WEI scores make no sense though - My Work PC did go down some, and the hardware between this PC and my home PC are almost identical except for Video Card (although I built the Home PC, and the Work PC is a Dell Precision Workstaion T3400).

Keep in mind that the scoring has been adjusted due to new benchmark algorithms...just because your scored lower doesn't necessarily mean that is bad. I am still trying to figure out the mechanics behind it though. My MS contact is trying to see what he can find out too.


I loaded it up on my HP XW8600 workstation at work and it just flat smokes. While my workstation is Vista certified and works well with Vista, Vista has never run as good as Windows7. Even with 12 GB of RAM and SAS raid. :nox

The task bar I really like...however, my user base at work, they might as well go ahead and retire...they are not going to learn this. Especially since the "Outlook" icon does not show up on the task bar anymore....oh and Lord help em with having no Classic Start Menu...hell, their mind set is, if their is not a shortcut on the desktop, it is not installed. Start Menu? What is a Start Menu? ....get it all the time. :violin Anyway, different subject and a long day at work.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

I think the biggest change in score on the Dell Precision was the video which wen't down a whole number - the rest just changed by a few points...The vid card in that thing is odd though - some kinda Nvidia Quadro...can't remember the model number, so it could (prolly will) improve w/ drivers.

Anyway - I'm pleased.
BTW - Henry - did you load up 2k8R2? My day was too busy to even think about it. Do you know if they made any major changes to Terminal Services? I honestly haven't had time to read up on it a whole lot. I'm using Citrix XenApp (Formerly known as Citrix Presentation Server) on Server 2008 to push Sales Logix to remote employees now, but do to cost restraints (AKA The "little bald man" I'm sure you remember), I'm using straight 2k8 terminal services to serve it up to Support.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

hell, their mind set is, if their is not a shortcut on the desktop, it is not installed.

You should have heard me trying to explain Citrix Web Access to some of the remote sales reps..."You mean I go to this web site to run Sales Logix and Office?" "I don't understand...can you do a Log Me In to show me?"

[LA_MERC_M@lACHi]

I did install it 2008 R2. That was as far as I got....I do know that it is running the same kernel WIndows 7 is...go figure. I am betting that the R2 version will get bumped up to released the same time at Windows 7. It is still not due til 2010. With Windows 7, there has to be a significant Group Policy update (we use GPOs very heavily at work) and I am betting R2 will be the version to support it. I will let you know what I find tomorrow....

[LA_MERC_M@lACHi]

You should have heard me trying to explain Citrix Web Access to some of the remote sales reps..."You mean I go to this web site to run Sales Logix and Office?" "I don't understand...can you do a Log Me In to show me?"

Yup....the sheer amazement I get from my users keeps me challenged and employed. :)

[LA_MERC_M@lACHi]

Do you know if they made any major changes to Terminal Services? I honestly haven't had time to read up on it a whole lot. I'm using Citrix XenApp (Formerly known as Citrix Presentation Server) on Server 2008 to push Sales Logix to remote employees now, but do to cost restraints (AKA The "little bald man" I'm sure you remember), I'm using straight 2k8 terminal services to serve it up to Support.

What parts of terminal services are you using...the remote desktop or application presentation? I am actually getting ready to build a application presentation farm using 2008 server for a "proof of concept" to provide better remote access to the teachers.

Yeah..I remember the little bald man. LOL! He would have a freakin field day with me and a couple of my colleagues here at work with the expenses we are piling up. Hell, we have nearly a $1 million dollar project building a new data center this summer that can handle 3 times what ACS can. :)

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

I'm doing the application presentation - basically a "poor man's Citrix". Hopefully I'll be able to secure the funds in the long run to just join those servers to the Citrix farm and have everyone on Citrix, but I'm doing the best I can w/ what I can. I'm using Citrix for SalesLogix and Office 2K7 for the remotes, and the internal peeps are just getting SLX via 2k8 remote app, so it does the job well enough.

We *are* talking about busting out the wall in the Datacenter and growing it into the PC lab - we are really running out of space now. I can remember when we first moved into that Datacenter how empty it was and now we are running into cooling and power barriers. We just ran more power in, and more AC - but we are soon to be reaching the limit. Heck, we still have stuff over in the old server room still...

The deal with the "bald guy" is, if it's for Client-side IT (stuff we host for clients) we can get all the money we want. If it's for "Corporate" infrastructure we have to beg like little kiddies :-P

It really doesn't matter to me as long as I can make it work, and they still pay me :-D

BTW - what do y'all do for backups? I'm about to re-do our backup system (again) and I'm looking for ideas. I need to close my time window some. I have the Hardware to do it with (according to specs), but I'm not getting the "rated performance" so to speak. I inherited control of the backups from Josh W. so I had to "reverse engineer" all the stuff he's done which has made it a pain - this whole process would've been so much simpler if I'd started from the ground up - and I think that is what I'm going to end up doing.

[LA_MERC_M@lACHi]

I actually just dumped Symantec Backup Exec for MS Data Protection Manager here at the district office. Getting ready to remove it from the school servers in the next few weeks. Basically, I am going disk based backups during the week for short term storage and long term storage to tape on the weekends. With DPM, you can take snapshots of your data changes up to every 15 minutes. I have nearly 30 TB of data protected that way and it is working very well for us. You need to come by and visit. :)

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Hmmm - MSDPM looks interesting - I'm not sure if I could win a battle to do away w/ Backup Exec though.


I do need to come by for a visit - I'm sure it would do me good to see another environment. We should set up a time.

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

I desperately want to find a replacement for BUExec!! That and tape drives...I hate em both!

[LA_MERC_M@lACHi]

Hmmm - MSDPM looks interesting - I'm not sure if I could win a battle to do away w/ Backup Exec though.


I do need to come by for a visit - I'm sure it would do me good to see another environment. We should set up a time.

Backup Exec does the same thing with its Continous Data Protection piece (for an added cost). I tried it and hated it. Look into it, YMMV. It is a serious resource hog IMO.

You tell me when you want to meet, I can make it happen. Even if it is after 5:00pm.

[LA_MERC_M@lACHi]

I desperately want to find a replacement for BUExec!! That and tape drives...I hate em both!

That is why I am going with Data Protection Manager. I went from dealing with nearly 60 tapes a week to 8. And I am backing up data all the time from the replicated data, so my backup window for tape is down considerably. :)

[LA_MERC_FragFood]

BTW - what do y'all do for backups? I'm about to re-do our backup system (again) and I'm looking for ideas. I need to close my time window some. I have the Hardware to do it with (according to specs), but I'm not getting the "rated performance" so to speak. I inherited control of the backups from Josh W. so I had to "reverse engineer" all the stuff he's done which has made it a pain - this whole process would've been so much simpler if I'd started from the ground up - and I think that is what I'm going to end up doing.

Still stuck on LTO2 for backups. BIG backup window, but I think it's a driver issue that'll resolve itself with a software upgrade. What are you using (HW/SW)? I have a definite need for a reduced backup window, and multiple rolling online backups wouldn't be bad to have. This is on the server side, of course, my clients are all covered.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

I have a Dell R900 (4U) w/ 2 Quad Core Xeons and 32GB of RAM for my head backup server (Running Symantec Backup Exec 12), connected to a Dell ML6020 (14U) media library with 2 LT04 drives. I go disk-to-disk-to-tape. My D2D is running on Promise 500i SANs. We've moved to Dell ML3000 SANs for our production data storage (possibly now moving to Dell EqualLogic arrays) so we are using the "retired" Promise arrays for Backups...
I *think* those Promise SANs might be part of my bottleneck, so I'm about to test moving my D2D to a ML3000 to see if I see a better backup window.

I do full Weekly's and Monthly's (only difference is retention time) and Differential Daily's.

I couldn't imagine what my backup window would be if I were stuck on LT02's (yikes!).

[LA_MERC_Maverick]

I loaded Windows 7 on my computer at home, it installed fine, but wouldnt recognize my network card (either onboard or one I put in), so I had to go back to XP. I loaded it on my work laptop (dual booted with XP), but haven't had a chance to play with it.

Speaking of backups, we had the primary server go down today at a school, with 2 hds in a raid 5 going out, and they didnt have any other backups, they were relying on people to do backups of software and on the raid. Now they are having to send the drives off for data recovery. I'm like, wtf, we don't have a true backup system in place?!? Obviously not. And with the budget cuts, we got no money to implement one....

(Insert M@l maniacal laugh here)

[LA_MERC_M@lACHi]

(Insert M@l maniacal laugh here)

:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1 :LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1:LOL1 :

Oh and let me guess....you blamed it on a virus? A novell server virus?
:virus:

On a serious note, you need to educate the educators at the school district. Apparently they are not abreast of certain data protection laws (i.e. FERPA, HIPAA, etc).

[LA_MERC_Maverick]

no, they blamed it on the hard drives crashing.

They did have some backups, but they were not current, at least 10 days old. I know they have copies of Symantec backup exec (cause I found one on my desk yesterday), but I have no idea what kind of backup protocol they really have, I haven't asked. I think I might do that next week.

Once I find out what we have in place, I might start looking into a better system. The problem is that the first thing we need to do is tear the network down and rebuild it from scratch (at least at the District Office) because there is no organization and no identifiers on what goes where.

I had to track down a fiber drop the other day, and it took me three days because no one knew where the connections ran....

If Chad ever got hit by a truck, we'd be up crap creek in a hurry.

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

Mav, where are you working now?

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Mav - that sucks dude. Any idea how much data y'all have (or should I say had)?

I've made a little headway with our backup system, and as slow as it may be (client data, i.e., OnDemand and LiveStor are growing at an alarming rate) at least I can sleep at night knowing I've got D2D and D2T to save my butt!

[LA_MERC_Maverick]

Yellar - I work as a network administrator at Darlington County School District

Max - I know they lost email, attendance data for students, and a couple of other things for the high school, but it just scares me how unprepared they are for data failing. They didn't even know the server had crashed until someone said there was a problem, and the net admin for the school went and looked at it.

Luckily it wasn't my school, but I think this is going to prep me to do some serious research and development to make sure that this doesn't happen at any of my schools.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Well Mav, between me and Henry you have plenty of resources you can tap into. Let me know if you need any help w/ your research!

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

Yellar - I work as a network administrator at Darlington County School District


Ohhh Dear GOD man... You have a couple of IDIOTS working in that school district IT Department.. or at least you did.

I had to deal with a couple of guys about a year ago, when I installed a 16 channel DVR, and the client software for access to the server from LAN computers.
I found myself having to explain to them the basic Shat like,

1. No, I cannot give you the IP address for the DVR,,, its you, the "NETWORK" guy that has to give me one....
2. No, I dont thinks its a good idea to let it automatically obtain an IP address, because the next time the server reboots, it will change and then your remote clients wont be able to access it anymore.
3. DUDE.... ALL I NEED FROM YOU GUYS IS A PLACE TO PLUG THE FARKING THING INTO AND FARKING STATIC IP ADDRESS!!!

Ohhh and dont even get me started on the computers the adminstrators of that school were using. OMG, they could not handle the software for the client. The guys were like well the "OTHER" DVR worked fine with the Quest client.... Well dude, im telling you, these computers wont run the Pelco client software, they dont meet the min. specs. You need to upgrade their machines..... "NETWORK GUY" But, But, But, the Other software worked fine.. cant you just use it..... NO!!! :banghead

[LA_MERC_Maverick]

LOL! that does sound like some of them, and I will agree that some of the computers they have are ancient.

I won't even tell you about the computer I'm having to use as my "work" computer, let's just say that I use the newer laptop I have instead. It doesn't even have any sata ports, so I had to salvage another pc so that I could re-image some laptops....

They are still in the 90s and its just sheer luck and miracles that nothing has broken to such an extent that everything would melt down. I have to duck under wires running across the room in our "server" room. Which just happens to be in an old dark room, and not an actual server room.

My goal is to learn more about how things are setup as they are, then look into fixing and bringing my schools up to par, then I might try my hand at offering the district some solutions for everything else. But, it's a long road to go.

[LA_MERC_Shadow]

After listening to you guys chat I understand why, out of the entire list of jobs for LSU Medical Center, the dept with the biggest need is IT. I was bored and was looking for the jobs they post on the net for my hospital and school and almost all were in the IT dept. Is it really that hard to find people?

[LA_MERC_Maverick]

Its hard to find "competent" people. There are people with the qualifications, but not the common sense (and believe, that statement coming from me is the height of irony), and then there are people with the desire, but not the competency to complete even the simplest of tasks. Of those that can, they have the idea that they should be paid more than what they are offered, so won't apply or accept jobs that meet their mythical salary.

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

Well, I have a humble view of myself when it comes to salary, and I know I'm competent, but have never quite had the nerve to step out into that world, but ultimately it seems to be a secure job to have.

Lord,
speaking of nerve to jump out into "THAT WORLD" Jason was literally right there beside me in the same class room when I took the biggest risk Ive ever taken in my life, that was to jump from Simplex to Software support at ACS. For the first 2 weeks I was in Panic mode, worried that I had bitten off more than I could chew. Why I did it were for my own reasons, but looking back now.... Man I took a BIG chance.

[LA_MERC_Maverick]

LOL, yea. Here I am snoozing through the training courses, and Parker is sitting beside me sweating bullets. I think he wanted to hurt me after each class was over.

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

Yea, ya freaking book worm.

[LA_MERC_M@lACHi]

Its hard to find "competent" people. There are people with the qualifications, but not the common sense (and believe, that statement coming from me is the height of irony), and then there are people with the desire, but not the competency to complete even the simplest of tasks. Of those that can, they have the idea that they should be paid more than what they are offered, so won't apply or accept jobs that meet their mythical salary.

Very well said and yes, the common sense statement comming from you is very highly ironic. :)