What the crap?

[LA_MERC_Captain_Obvious]

Policeman pepper sprays perp
Perp pulls gun, shoots Policeman
Perp runs over Policeman
Elderly witness/bystander grabs gun off injured / dead Policeman
Elderly witness shoots and kills perp

report from CNN (http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2007/06/26/ergas.nh.cops.last.stop.whdh/content.html#)

[LA_MERC_Captain_Obvious]

so... I'm wondering, why did the officer run to the car and cover the inside of it with pepper spray? shouldn't he have tried to get the perps out of the vehicle first? Also, why does the officer turn his back on the perps after spraying them? wouldn't he at least want to see their reaction or make sure they were effected by the spray?

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

Ok... I'm sure that guy will be used in countless training classes as what NOT to do...
I know its tragic, but I have to say it... What the officer did was stupid... from the looks of it, he just walked away with a "THAT WILL TEACH YOU" kind of look... So he paid with his life. I know every situation is different, but never turn your back on anyone, anytime, anywhere, if you are having an issue with that person. Another thing, I believe most of the time, when I see a police chase, once the chase is over, the next event that happens is a police officer with his gun pulled, ready to kill the driver if they so much as threaten the officer, be it with the car, or a weapon, or whatever....

This guy was careless, and now hes paid the ultimate price... His life. I feel sorry for his family, because what just happened was senseless.


Ohhh, and for the Elderly witness..
He deserves some kind of medal... We need more people like him out there...
Instead of the kind that will stand by and do nothing as gang members beat a lone person to death.

[LA_MERC_Andyconda]

I've seen another article about that and apparently the shooter and the cop had some kind of history and yes the cop was being kinda arrogant by spraying his mace and walking away. I know its tragic but Parker is right. Don't turn your back on someone you've just pissed off and try to walk away holy'er than thou and think he's not going to do anything becuase I'm a cop. I personally know a lot of cops that suffer from the "Napoleonic syndrome" and think they are better than. Its not the majority and I have a big respect for law enforcers who put their life on the line for my protection, BUT hopefully this guys arrogance will be a lesson to future cops who start to feel privledged, special, or above the law. At a minimum it should teach you that you should never turn your back on a possible criminal, EVER!

P.S. Kudos to the acting citizen for gunning down the punk. That punk definately needed to be picked from the gene pool. and Condolences to the cops family.

[LA_MERC_Spark]

That was just plain silly. I mean wth?

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

Well what does CFH have to say?

[waltersw15]

Definitely unfortunate. The cop definitely did not seem to do anything by procedure.

The unfortunate thing to this is that the perp's family will probably successfully sue the bystander who took the officers gun and shot him, and it will be for some stupid reason like he isn't licensed to use a gun, etc., ect, ect...

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

Well what does CFH have to say?

Stand by...

He had it coming. I don't even know where to begin with that tactical ABORTION. That is a STUNNING example of what complacency can cause.

1: It's safe to say that was the end of some kind of pursuit and a somewhat violent one if it ended with both cars facing each other and the officer pushing the suspect's car backwards.

That means you do a "felony stop" with guns out, single person extraction and with several other officers assisting you. Even if you live in BFE you’re going to have a partner SOMEWHERE or at least a near by city or town that can send someone to help you. Once you have the car stopped, YOU are now in control...not the suspect. Time is on your side and if it means waiting 10 or 20 minutes for backup...SO WHAT!

2: Running up on the car. WOW...just...wow.

From the video, I can't see a legitimate reason to do that. I'm hard pressed to even MAKE UP a legitimate reason to run up on the car. The simple fact that the suspect's car is FACING you robs you of one of the best tactical advantages you have in vehicle stops. He can't see you as you approach. Not to mention that fact that if he was motivated to hurt you, all he has to do, as in this case, is lift the gun and fire. If the vehicle was facing away it's much harder to shoot at you. He'd either have to get out of the car or twist all the way around in the seat to get a shot off. The act of running up to the car sets a chain of events in motion that led to his death. He gave the upper hand right back to the suspect.

3: Pepper spray. Huh? No really...WTF where you thinking?

Pepper spray is marginally effective at best. The ONLY advantage pepper spray had in that situation was that it was contained in the car potentially making it more effective. Apparently not though. This is part 2 of the chain of events I mentioned.

You run up to the car and now what? You have to do SOMETHING. You can't stand there and ask for license, registration and insurance. Do you go hands on and yank him out the open window? Sure it's an option but there is a passenger too who is a potential threat. Going hands on means 100% of your attention needs to be on the suspect till he's cuffed and at least patted down. Pepper spray makes sense in that situation right?

4: Turning your back on the guy you were just in a violent vehicle pursuit with AND you felt justified in using pepper spray against. Huh? (double take) HUH HUH?!?!

So you've created exigency by charging a car you just pursued instead of waiting for back up. Then you pepper sprayed him because he was obviously a threat. The next logical thing is to...turn your back and walk away. That chain of events we talked about just got REALLY grim.

5: You’re shot in the back several times by the suspect.

Assuming you weren't shot in the head, this is about the time...MAYBE...you start to question some of the decisions you just made relating to the conclusion of the pursuit. As you ponder the error of your ways, the suspect runs you over. Game over.

I see two bright spots in all of this. One, the suspect was shot and killed. That always makes me smile. Two, the memory of this officer will live forever in training videos of what not to do. HOPEFULLY it will save an officer in the future.

I realize this post is incredibly callous but GOD DAMN people that was just dumb. The only thing the officer DIDN'T do was give the suspect a gun to shoot him with. I'm just as heartless when I see stupidity pertaining to officers as I am with the likes of Chris Benoit.

Every officer does things that are risky or just down right stupid. Most of the time afterwards we either realize it or someone points it out. Hell, I got my ass kicked on video recently in front the local 7-11 because my partner and I were actually working AGAINST each other and didn't know it till after the fight when we talked about it. I took 3 haymakers to the chin because I was pulling left and my partner was trying to roll him right.

The idea is to learn from it and don't repeat it. Turning your back on a violent suspect is day 1 academy stuff.

[LA_MERC_RPSNIPER]

I saw this post last night while I was at work but could not watch the video on the computer I was on. CFH nailed it his post. I don't walk up to a persons vehicle even on traffic stops unless there is just no way around it. I make them get out and come to me while I use my patrol unit for what little cover they provide. This guy should have stayed back and waited for back up. Even if the pursuit started up again it would be better that what he did. Running up to the car like he did was bad enough but turning his back on the suspect was just stupid. I know we have small towns around here and we try to give those officers pointers on things since they do not get the training that bigger departments do. But it is like CFH said you learn not to turn your back on a suspect in the academy. Don't know if it was lack of training with this guy or if he just left his tactics at home that day. At least the witness was able to stop the suspect.

[LA_MERC_Spark]

I think an important point to remember here guys is that these two had an ongoing deal. No question that what the officer did was stupid, but think about it differently. I may be able to see where an officer that is familiar with a particular suspect could let his guard down. In fact it has happened on more than one occasion. I read just the other day about an officer that was shot by the local nut job that they had dealt with several times before. It may have been a situation where the officer was too familiar. In any case... a VERY poor decision to say the least.

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

There are several (about 10 come to mind) people that I deal with repeatedly for whatever reason. Some violent...some not. If one of the non-violent ones popped his cork and let me on a pursuit that ended like that, any familiarity goes out the window. If it was one of my regular assholes then even worse.

I feel bad a cop died and I feel REALLY bad for his family but he took a bad situation and made it lethal. There should be 2 people in jail and a cop going about his business. Instead 2 people are dead and countless people effected by it.

[LA_MERC_RPSNIPER]

I agree CFH. I run into people that I deal with all the time. I am nice to them untill they give me a reason not to be. But when it comes to work I try to do things the way I have been taught no matter who it is I am dealing with. It all comes down to me going home to my family at the end of my shift. You just can not afford to let your guard down when dealing with people.

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

Amen

[LA_MERC_Spark]

Oh no doubt... no doubt at all. I'm not a cop and do not pretend for a minute to be one. They don't pay enough for me to eat a bullet!!I have had some training in close quarters combat. (gun/knife included) Some of the folks I've trained with are cops. I guess what I'm trying to say is I feel pretty sure of my ability to handle myself. I also no damn sure the way he handled the situation was completely wrong and I'm not trying to justify ANY of his actions. I'm just trying to rationalize in my mind how in the sh!t this guy could make so many bone headed decisions at one time. It would seem that some sort of familiarity with the suspect is the only plausible explanation for his actions be it right or wrong. In this case absolutely wrong.

[Daedelus]

wow read the posts and then whent back and watched the video. was amazed. definatly a trainging video in the works there of not what to do.
watch the troopers body language was almost like he had pulled over his best friend or little brother like a gag. or something they way he walked up there and just started spraying in the car with out looking to see if it was having any effect at all. like he was like take this punk like it was a joke. but it turns so real when the suspect gun comes out the window so fast after the cop starts walking away making me think he was pulling it on the cop before he was pepper sprayed. like he had the intent to use it even before the peperspraying happened if you get what i mean. also i couldnt figure out if the 2 cars where facing each other. the officer came from the right side of the screen like he had gone(ran?) all the way around the back of his car? rather than inbetween the cars(big nono smash city there) or if he was really in that much a hury i would think you would see a dukes of hazzard slide over the hood, not around the back of the car wow.

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

yea, he rammed the car.. pushed it back several feet, then got out, went
around the back of his truck, and approached it from his passenger side.

Im not sure what would have been the proper way to approach the vehicle, but Im thinking it would have been better to not approach at all... Instead, draw your gun and hide behind the door, while demanding they get out and lay face down on the ground... It may not be the "CowBoy Approach" but At least he would still be alive.