What do you know about Jihad?

[LA_MERC_Wetzny]

Jihad... What do you believe?


http://www.terrorismawareness.org/know-about-jihad/

[LA_MERC_Bacowrath]

Jihad... What do you believe?


http://www.terrorismawareness.org/know-about-jihad/

Nothing surprising, Wetz. Same ol doctrine for 1400 years. Most folk don't realize that it's not "extremists" with this mentality, but just fundamental Muslims. It's the basic teaching of the Koran. That's why the battle will never end. It's not Arabic law, or politics, but rather a religion that teaches death to the "infadel"....or...all followers of the "western" ways.(dat be us)

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

The 2 photos of the world trade center got me the most. The news never shows any of the "real" 911 photos.. like the people falling to their deaths, or the ones hanging outside the windows,,, their fate sealed...

Nope... no one wants to see the "REALITY" of what happed that day.

[LA_MERC_Wetzny]

You know Yellowdog that's a good point... I guess people who are in charge of certain media outlets just want us to move on and forget how these people suffered and died.

Jihad is real, and like it or not we are the target. It's been ongoing for some time now, and I'm still amazed most people have their head stuck in the sand and want to blame it on Bush, Iraq, Oil, Global Warming, or the price of tea in China.

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

I'm not going to discount anything said in the video as probably 90% or more of it is based on fact...however...

How self-serving is it that a man of Jewish descent, and former Marxist supporter, comes out with a video against the very people trying to destroy the Jewish state of Israel? Not at all? Ok...

Has anyone here actually READ the Koran?I have my copy of it at home that I'll GLADLY send to someone else to read...

[LA_MERC_Wetzny]

There is no doubt that Horowitz has an agenda, the facts however remain the same agenda or not.

There appears to be no "settlement" available, short of the complete eradication of Israel, the Jews, and America, that will appease the "peace loving" Arab street. I don't see how Horowitz's pointing out the 800lb gorilla in the room changes anything.

The question I have is; what more does it take to get a sizable number of America's democratically elected officials to pull their collective head out of their arse's and wake to the threat? My God they've already destroyed the World Trade Center towers, hit the Pentagon, targeted the White House or Capitol. And yet a majority of our "leaders" in Washington don't seem competent enough to even ADMIT we are at war..

More students of the Koran here, "peacefully" burning the Union Jack after the suggested knighthood of Salman Rushdie.....

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20070618/capt.sge.omx67.180607164923.photo00.photo.default-467x512.jpg?x=314&y=345&sig=ntX5wQas_1yYg_jtd0g5jg--

[LA_MERC_Bacowrath]

I'm not going to discount anything said in the video as probably 90% or more of it is based on fact...however...

How self-serving is it that a man of Jewish descent, and former Marxist supporter, comes out with a video against the very people trying to destroy the Jewish state of Israel? Not at all? Ok...

Has anyone here actually READ the Koran?I have my copy of it at home that I'll GLADLY send to someone else to read...


Yeah Tech, unfortunately, I had the "pleasure" of reading, and studying the Koran while I spent 2 years in seminary. It is pretty interresting. Oh, don't get me wrong, you can read a lot of stuff about love and peace, but it only applies to those who are followers of Mohammad. The goal of Islam is NOT to convert people, but rather to kill all who are not Muslim. I know what the media promotes as far as calling the terrorists "radicles", heck even Bush made the statement after 9/11 that the "true" muslim faith is "peaceful", however, this is a farce. Believe me, if you read the entire Koran, you will see what I mean. (not that I would recommend wasting my time) :) MOST Mosques in this country are not "true" Muslim mosques...the American version of Islam started during the 60's and doesn't follow the Koran very well. Those folk across the pond, on the other hand, are VERY fundamental in their beliefs, and those beliefs say to kill the infadel...(that's you and me :) )

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

Sorry but that vid didn'texactly motivate me. The delivery over the top with the "JIHAD" every few frames and the music just made it comical. That is NOT the way to get the message out. The messenger seems as extreme as the people he's preeching against.

As for the burning flag...is itjust me or does that look fake? For as large as the flames are, the flag appears unscarred where the flames are the highest. It's a moot point though, I KNOW those groups burn flags all the time. Hell, we have American groups who burn our own flag all the time.

I'm not an alarmist. The video is a weak attempt at scaring, inciting and infuriating people into being single minded. Christianity isn't much better then Islam as far as having total nut jobs preeching warped versions of the original text. Most extremist groups latch onto a short verse or passage, interpret it incorrectly, then twist the entire book to fit that one twisted passage.

I understand we are at war. I know good men and women die EVERY DAY fighting for our country. I also know they are dying in a sandbox that will NEVER be safe to play in....EVER! There are too many ideologies there that are opposed to each other and all are willing to die for the cause. I'd rather sit in the cheap seats with popcorn and Coke and watch the carnage. Getting doen on the field is and always will be a bad idea. If they come to us...fine. Going there...no thanks.

[LA_MERC_Wetzny]

I don't really disagree with your opinion on the production quality of the piece, however I'll take issue with the concept that essentially there are Christian nut jobs preaching warped versions of the original text... While that is probably true, when was the last time you saw one behead anyone? Or call for the total destruction of a nation and it's people?

Again production quality aside, what I take from the piece is the historical opportunities for the region to co-exist, and Arabs have essentially declined any opportunity to accept this in their zeal to destroy Israel. That continues today...

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

Hmm...lets see, The Crusades...the Spanish Inquisition...Salem Witch Trials...historically, the list goes on and on. I see NO difference in what these people are trying to accomplish than ANY of the other religious whack-jobs throughout history marching their troops to a different country to "liberate the holy land" or to inflict their will upon others. It's the same problem, just a different day. We (as a "christian" based country) are just upset about it now because WE are being the attack-ee rather than the attacker.

I agree with CFH...the video was sensationalist...made to get people all worked up over something. Look at the timeline, you have less than 30 attacks over 30 years...during that same time period, how many times has the US military gone to war to inflict death and destruction (for whatever reason) in some remote country?

1983 Grenada
1989 US Invasion of Panama
1990-1991 Persian Gulf War
1995-1996 Intervention in Bosnia and Herzegovina
2003-Present Invasion of Iraq

Not including the support of the Iran Contras, Nicaraguan rebel support, Afgan rebel support (Russo-Afgan war) and COUNTLESS other skirmishes.

Will write more later...work calls

[LA_MERC_Wetzny]

*Yawn intervention in Bosenia to SAVE muslim lives and that's a bad thing?...

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

Yawn? Ok...

Intervention is STILL war. Regardless of who we are there to "help"...it still is a war (and is ANYONE really helped in a war?).

the point is that we have done probably FAR worse for other people and to other people in the same time period.

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

As long as there have been Gods, the world has been killing for them. This is true for Catholicism or Islam. Please do not say that, "I am a Lutheran, and not Catholic", or some bullsh!t like that. We all come from the same "book". Both sides of the isle have whack jobs that set out to cleanse the Earth of some dirt here and there. Our country started due to RELIGIOUS persecution in England. It is only fitting that we as a country take up every religious skirmish we can get an excuse to get involved in.

The facts are simple:
1. Islam has been Islam since day one.
a. Why now do we need to thwart it?
b. What part of FREEDOM of RELIGION does it fall under?
c. Do we govern the world under a different constitution?

Here are some good groups that use the good lord as their guidance.

KKK
Arian Race
Black Panthers
The Current US Administration
Let us all not forget David Koresh
Charles Manson even used a hybrid religious montage.

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

Also if you think about it, which religion is actually more up in the air?
How many different philosophical teachings of Islam can one find?
Buddhism?
Jewish?
Atheist?
Okay, how about christianity?
I found a link about Larimer county in N. Colorado. Look at the differences here. I would ask which of the "Christian" churches are teaching their congregations wrong? Could someone point them out? Or is it the groups above and below the "Christian" ones that are wrong?
http://www.fortnet.org/FortNet/comm/rel.html

[LA_MERC_Wetzny]

This conversation always goes the same direction, the US is bad therefore it's OK for Islamic fascists to want to kill us....

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

Wetz, you have a pattern man...you put up a post in the on topic forums, wait for someone to reply, then get all offended that people don't agree with you. We just disagree! Nothing more than that. Nobody said ANYTHING about who was right or wrong...we're just giving examples of how your arguments are flawed. Nothing more.

[LA_MERC_Wetzny]

Of course mine are flawed... but so are yours. And I'm not offended, simply irritated when it becomes fashionable to blame America first, tiring.

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

Yeah, my arguments are flawed too...the joys of basing opinion off of skewed fact.

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

I am always wrong:stick. No I am NOT saying the US is wrong completely. Lets just do it instead of talking about how bad it could be if we are not there. If we are there to rid us of Islam, then lets say that and move forward. If we are there to find WMD devices, then lets say that and FIND them. If we are there for the Oil, then say that and go get us some relief. If we are there to look for more excuses, then we are to blame.

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

:)GROUP HUG EVERYONE:)



OH... BTW, I am always right, never wrong, so dont go contradicting me... Just making this clear to all you un-Edjumicated people.

[LA_MERC_Nutria]

I like boobies

[waltersw15]

Um, sorry to say Yellowdog, but you mispelled uneducated ;)

Heck with the group hug! In the famous words of Southpark "Man pile!" :)

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

Um, sorry to say Yellowdog, but you mispelled uneducated ;)

My point exactly... and to think I'm using Fire Fox with automatic spell check on... LOL :)

[LA_MERC_Bacowrath]

I like boobies

FINALLY an intellectual emerges from amongst us simple minded rabble :p

[LA_MERC_Heater]

So sitting on the sideline is better then getting involved..
All it takes for Evil to Prevail is for Good Men to do Nothing" Edmund Burke
How true is this statement...anyone can find fault in mens teachings,but The word of God inspired by God,written by men.It has stood the test of time thru many who would try to discredit it.
Chirstianity and Islamic faith or nothing alike.The Bible teaches to turn the other cheek,to love your brother as your self.The Koran teaches to kill all that oppose the islamic faith or thos that do not convert..To do nothing is just insane..Wait till the come here..They are here,they attacked us here..Do we need any more of an invitation to join the dance they have invited us to?

In the end noone will be convienced from someone elses believes,but one day all will relize the truths of Gods`s Word as being correct.
This is not meant to change anyone elses view..Just my 2 cents on what i believe..

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

Well, from a biblical stand point I know where your coming from heater. I think what your saying is what I also believe to be true. When God "the one who sent Jesus to die on the cross for all mans sins" Sends his son back to Earth to collect all believes and leave behind all non-believes... "The rapture" ... Then all will know the truth,,, and after that day Tribulation will fall upon the earth... and so on.... I know it may sound Corny and weird to some people,,,,, Like " OMG.. I cant believe you could believe in such NON-sense that some bible thumper told you when you were a child.... But hey... People don't criticize Muslims when they BLOW them selfs up in the name of allah... All I here is, well its what they believe... Given the choice.., I will stick with the God that does not encourage suicide.. but instead Harshly discourages it... with a promise of a 1 way ticket to damnation.

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

To me, religion is a crutch...an excuse to rationalize actions that would normally have no excuse. Religion is responsible for more deaths the ANY OTHER thing in history.

Answer me this...can we WIN this war in the middle east? A simple yes or no.

If you answer no (which i believe to be the correct answer) then at what point does our presence there become counter productive?

According to CNN Oct 29th 2003 the official death toll form 9-11 is 2,792.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/10/29/wtc.deaths/

As of yesterday (June 19th 2007) the US has lost 3525 US soldiers...that's almost 800 more then on 9-11.
http://www.icasualties.org/oif/

Where do YOU draw the line? 5,000....10,000....50,000?

I'm not a pasivist by any means. I'm all for killing people who need to be killed either via death penalty, laser guides missles or carpet bombing. The problem comes in when we have the misguided belief that was can actually CHANGE things in the middle east.

Where terrorists are concerned, we are stuck with being reactionary. You can't proactively fight an enemy that hides in plain sight. Bring everyone home. If we are attacked again bomb the living hell out of them and cripple thier operations for a time.

Make no mistake, this IS Bush's Viet Nam. I just hope we don't have to loose 50,000 troops to figure that out. At least with jungle warfare you could burn entire acres to the ground with napalm. You can't do that with urban warfare.

[LA_MERC_Heater]

I agree with you on that Scott about religion is a crutch. There is not enough time or space to cover all the different religion and the way Men try to use it to suit there needs. But I can tell you about an experience detailed walk with a personal God that has opened, and closed door throughout my life. That has kept me more times then I can say from screwing up what I think is good choices. On drawing the line, I do believe we need to find a way out of there, but to drop the ball, and pull out after all this and giving it back to Iran to rule in the middle of this was be far worst in the long run. Then just staying the course to give the new government a chance. Do I think it will be a success over there? No I don’t, why; because the Bible says that there will never be peace between the nation of Israel, and the Muslim faith. For Islam Faith, and the Koran to be true, it would mean that Israel would have to give up the city of Jerusalem. Which we all know Israel will never do that. To make a long story short God give Israel his Chosen people the city of Jerusalem. This in turn goes against everything the Koran teaches. So no there will never be peace, we will never completely stop the Radical Islamic people from doing what they do. But we can do all that we can to slow it down and not help there cause...and I do like the laser guides missles, and carpet bombing idea..lol

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

To me, religion is a crutch...an excuse to rationalize actions that would normally have no excuse. Religion is responsible for more deaths the ANY OTHER thing in history.

Answer me this...can we WIN this war in the middle east? A simple yes or no.

If you answer no (which i believe to be the correct answer) then at what point does our presence there become counter productive?

According to CNN Oct 29th 2003 the official death toll form 9-11 is 2,792.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/10/29/wtc.deaths/

As of yesterday (June 19th 2007) the US has lost 3525 US soldiers...that's almost 800 more then on 9-11.
http://www.icasualties.org/oif/

Where do YOU draw the line? 5,000....10,000....50,000?

I'm not a pasivist by any means. I'm all for killing people who need to be killed either via death penalty, laser guides missles or carpet bombing. The problem comes in when we have the misguided belief that was can actually CHANGE things in the middle east.

Where terrorists are concerned, we are stuck with being reactionary. You can't proactively fight an enemy that hides in plain sight. Bring everyone home. If we are attacked again bomb the living hell out of them and cripple thier operations for a time.

Make no mistake, this IS Bush's Viet Nam. I just hope we don't have to loose 50,000 troops to figure that out. At least with jungle warfare you could burn entire acres to the ground with napalm. You can't do that with urban warfare.

Amen.

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

I agree its a big scarry mess, one of the guys from this area thats been their 2 tours, when I asked him if thought there was any hope for these people, he told me nope... their a bunch of Backwards idiots...then he told me some stories of what he saw while he was over there... It was Sad.... Im afraid its never really going to get better,,, the only thing I feel sure of, is its going to get a lot worse if we leave.

[LA_MERC_Nutria]

clicky clicky

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

clicky clicky


LOL!!! If I dind't know better I'd see he was looking....AT ME!!!

[Ab1dab1]

Ok....I have to jump in with my two cents.

I've seen articles that depict how although hard-liners in the Middle East still push the "old-ways", that the current generation year after year pushes the envelope as their own culture "strays away from purity". Their youth of today (at least the ones who aren't brainwashed and carrying automatic weapons and bombs strapped to their chests) hunger for our "American culture".

Everyone views other societies differently. And yes everyone always comes up with the "other guy has it better than me" arguments.

You'd think at some point the hard liners will recognize that their inner society is slowly evolving in to what they are bred to hate and despise. To me I see a future where they start to subdivide their society yet again and the fight returns to an internal society war (over there) rather than a external war against everything American.

Ok...that was too deep. Sorry for the $0@p80x.

Abi

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

Well.. I just got up, and this was your post was the first thing I read... and well.... I think I get it, but I'm not sure... Im going back to bed now. lol

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

Do not forget to circle 3 times before laying down:stick

[LA_MERC_YellowDog]

Do not forget to circle 3 times before laying down:stick

LMAO!!! I got that too...
Yea I usually scratch up some fresh dirt and get to the cooler ground before I settle in. :)