Hybrid Cars

[LA_MERC_Andyconda]

Don't believe the hype. A co-worker here just bought a new hybrid escape. He's an engineer so I thought he might know what he's talking about. So I tell him let me see the numbers. He goes what do you mean. I said you know the milaege increase to the colst comparison of hybrid cars. He had no such analysis. SO, I sat down with him and generated a spreadsheet to see just how much he's saving.

I've attached the spreadsheet for you benefit. The excel file extension is not allowed on our forums so I changed the extension to txt so all you have to do is change the extension back to xls and then you can open it in excel and see for your self.

[Wyrm_f00d]

heh... pretty good analysis... but i am curious... would that analysis hold true for a car... something like a Honda Civic Hybrid???

Btw... damn those hippies... burn gas... hell lets go back to burning c0al...

;-)

[LA_MERC_Dirge]

Oh yeah, hybrid cars do not save money. Especially when the MSRP is inflated due to demand pressures. What's missing from your analysis is the grossly high maintenance costs that are starting to show up. And that little tax break you get doesn't amount to much either. I think I heard that 12-15 years is the break even point.

[LA_MERC_Sabre]

shame on you andy....

if miles per year is 15000….then you use (15000/20)*10= 7500 gallons per 10 years for old car

if miles per year is 15000….then you use (15000/45)*10= 3333 gallons per 10 years for hybrid car

7500-3333= 4166 gallons difference over 10 years

4166 gallons X 2.09 $/gallon = $8706.94

which is higher than the $6000 extra you had on the spreadsheet so it is a bit cheaper....but not enough savings for me to consider one. But if the prices of gas go up....the savings obviously go up.

also this is not taking into consideration of the time value of money

[Biggs]

screw it all

i got a 4x4 tahoe and that monkey burns gas like a friggin iraqi shoots rpg's


and i am getting a gmc 2500hd diesel 4x4 4 door so i expect to burn even more fossil fuels...i partly do it just to piss off hippies..


then u put the bullydog chip for the diesel in and when u get on it, freakin a 75 foot long trail of black smook pours out.....screw them tree huggers i say burn it all down..............hahahahaha

[LA_MERC_Dirge]

Andy, you're numbers are a bit off, the actual savings is $2.61/gallon as you get 2.25 more out of each gallon (45/20*2.09-2.09)
This puts the savings closer to $8700.

You low balled him and probably made him cry.

Although the market price and maintenance will wipe out the difference.

And one other BIG factor is the estimated MPG is WAAAAYYYY off. I have seen reports where the hybrids avregae close to 1/2 fo what they are advertised as. I guess that happens when you start toting groceries around...

[LA_MERC_Sabre]

well...you'll be the first to whine about not having fuel for that 2500hd diesel with the bullydog chip (whatever that is) in 20 years when all those resources run dry and/or are so expensive that the 2500hd is sitting on blocks in your driveway because you don't make enough money to drive it.

I'm not a 'tree hugger' but careless attitudes like that is what is causing the problems we are having today with fuel shortages/prices.


you probably made him cry....

lmao...that was good.

[LA_MERC_Dirge]

/me smacks sabre

c'mon you know better than that. Gas prices are what they are right now primarily due to limited refining capacity (no new refineries built in the US in something like 17 years). We will not run out of hydrocarbon fuel before a better energy source is found. We can reach more and more of it everyday. We have barley scratched the surface of the oil reserves actually out there. Russia alone sits on more tertiary oil than we have used to date, total. And our deep well technology goes deeper everyday.

[LA_MERC_Sabre]

lol...you forget that I work for a company that designs the equipment that reaches those 'untapped' oil fields....I know that we won't run out of fuels anytime soon....

I was trying to stir the new guy up a bit...heheheeh

[LA_MERC_Diesel]

Get that hippie canadian Dirge...psst if he come back on me...lay another fact on his bald head :stick
:p:

[LA_MERC_Dirge]

lol doh

um yeah you gas guzzling hog! Think about those spotted owls, ya meanie! Make levees, not war!

[Biggs]

i got a buddy who is a petro engi and that dude says burn it like u stole it cause we aint gonn loose it anytime soon

[Wyrm_f00d]

i got a buddy who is a petro engi and that dude says burn it like u stole it cause we aint gonn loose it anytime soon


hahaha... i love teh "burn it like ya stole it" bit

[LA_MERC_Andyconda]

Yeah, it didn't make sence to analyze it through the ratio of fuel economy. Its simpler to do the net use like you did. Funny thing is it was his idea to do it to the ratio, lol. I guess he made himslef cry. He feels better now Al since you've shown the light. Could catch. Although I rode in it at lunch, NO POWER. It does alright but I guess I'm use to my huge V8 gas guzzling 4X4 monster. LOL.

[LA_MERC_Nutria]

Those hybrid things have hidden dangers many people don't know about. I work in the automotive field and boy these things can be downright scary.
Honda: If you open the hood on one of those things and take off the plastic cover you will reveal another cover with skull and crossbones and the word danger. Imagine what would happen in a bad accident... it could crack open.
All of the hybrids have very high voltage flowing through them.. all the time even when the ignition is off. Toyota put out a special bulletin for emergency workers to get special training on dealing with these cars in a wreck as for the chassis could become "live" and ground through an emergency worker trying to get to a victim. If you plan on getting one I suggest waiting a few years until they work out all the bugs.

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

OKAY.......what I look at is most hybrids as they are known are of the gas/electric variety, I personally agree more with what Dodge is doing in their truck, When stopped the engine dies and restarts when accelerator is depressed. This alone goes along with the "turn the light off when not in the room" philosophy. Mercedes also did this in a V12 car that killed cylinders during highway cruising. Bumped gas mileage up by 2-3 times. As far as huggin plants......those damn hippies polute more wit da tweed smokin than biggs does being a drunken wahoo in a 4 by er. I personally drive a '93 Jeep Wrangler w/ oversized tires and plenty of lugs to throw clods at the tree spikers, also a dolphin killing GMC Suburban that will mow over any of those hybrid speed decreasers. They cannot even be considered bumps. I have a '67 Camaro 415hp that got 6 mpg when racing around, and a '82 GMC Heavy Half wit a 4" lift 35 in tires and a 350 cid gas station supporter also.

Earth First!........we will mine the other planets later!

[LA_MERC_Andyconda]

']Earth First!........we will mine the other planets later!

LMFAO, I like that!

[JUNKY]

Another prob with the Hybrids is the battery life. I've seen some estimates that some powercells need replacing after as little as 5-7 years, and the battery replacement can cost upwards of $5,000 at this time.

I'm the type of guy that has limped GM products along until the 200,000 mile mark on a few occasions - If I bought something like an accord or camry with their normal relibaility ratings - I could see myself driving that car for 15-20 years. There is no way I am willing to take on the assumed cost of replacing those batteries in the little hybrids yet.

Plus - the new Chevy Monte Carlo SS is sporting a 5.3liter V8 - 303 hp, and 28mpg. If they could just make it rear wheel drive, I might condiser one.

[Biggs]

i would like to see the camero...i got a 70 chevelle with a 502...i drove it from new orleans to baton rouge and i had to stop for gas half way. lol...i do have a gear venders under/overdrive on it and that helped a little...the motor does have work doen so it really drink gas....fr

[Biggs]

i was just packing my bags for my trip and came across this photo:

ok this is what happened. at like 4 in the morning my buddy and i where calling it a night. so we went to drop off these two girls at their appartment (shown in the picture, it sterling apps. in baton rouge.) we where drunk as shiot and i got the bright idea to go through that drainage lake...at 4 in the morning.

so we bonzai in that monkey and things are going good until the jeep stops...then sinks...then about 10 minutes after this pic was taken the jeep sunk even more...so that the water was well of the dash board.

so we call up a buddy and he brings his 250 diesel out there to tow our sry arses out...no go.

we then get a wreking truck to get us out.....no go....he burnt up his winch

then we call the big boy...the 18 wheeler wrecking truck and that beast yank the jeep out effortlessly...leaving behind ruts the size of those damn hybrid cars.

the police aslo came to give us heck and they just sat and drank beer with us and laughed....we got the jeep out around 11 the next morning and we had quit a crowd with us by then.

jeep facts: 8 inch superlift, 37 inch swampers, air locker in the rear.

shiot that was f'ed: complete interior and dash....front left brake caliper got all whacked out (dont know how), tranny sucked up some water..engine ok, front axle had water in it.

best part was that the girls were still in the jeep while it was sinking and one of em lost some really expensive pair of girls shoes in the mud on the way out.

i got some pics of us getting a bobcat stuck in a small lake....i will have to post those too.

[LA_MERC_Andyconda]

Great pic. I'll have to dig some up of my beast in some of its glory. I do think I have a movie file of me in a mud derby. I'll see if I can find that one. Good stuff.

[LA_MERC_Dirge]

hehe Is that the apartment complex off of Nicholson Extension?

And btw, the new Camaro is mega bucks according to a guy at work who was gonna buy one. Evidently, Chevy is making it along the lines of a Viper?!?! wth

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

The camaro is coming back? It was discontinued to make more room for more "practical" applications(ie, the vette is the only sports car needed). Along come the monte's, impalas, colbalts, etc..... BAH.

[LA_MERC_Nutria]

Yeah the camaro will have the retro look to it also.

[Biggs]

where can i see a concept pic of the camaro?

[LA_MERC_Nutria]

Here are a few

[Wyrm_f00d]

Well... let this be said... I am not much of a GM fan due to the shotty interior work on their vehicles, but all the same that is a pretty bad a** lookin car

[JUNKY]

I think there is some confusion on the Camaro thing - The orange car above is just a 3D computer rendering - Those sketches were done by a guy simply cause he could - but he tried selling them to GM - GM liked his work and asked him to do more. I think they have a working relationship now. GM has no officialplans on making a new f-body as of now.

The ultra-high end 69 camaro that some people have mentioned is a custom built car. Ultra high dollar, hand built from scratch. Not a restoration on an existing car. It looks like a classic camaro, but dimensions are different, and no stock bodypanels are used. Lemme find a link to the info.

[JUNKY]

Oh - the guy that did the sketches above is named Kris Horton - http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0312PHR_Fifth_Reloaded/

Here's his website -- some amazing renderings - http://www.carsbykris.com/

[JUNKY]

I knew it was one of the old "big names" in Chevy performance - it's Baldwin Motion that is recreating the custom camaros - and by chance - Kris Horton designed the look of the car for them.

http://i.cnn.net/money/2005/11/09/Autos/funonwheels/motion_camaro/gal_threequarterview.03.jpg

http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/funonwheels/11/09/motion_camaro/

http://www.officialbaldwinmotion.com/product.htm

[LA_MERC_Dirge]

Well, the new Camaro IS a concept car for the 2006 Detroit Auto Show:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=106732

Interesting info on those hax photos. Can't trust anything these days... lol

[LA_MERC_M@lACHi]

Pretty good points on all accounts here! I am actually preferring what Chevrolet is doing (and Dodge I believe). When not fully used, only 4 cylinders are being utilized and as the power is needed it flucuates between the 4 to 6 to 8 cylinders. I haven't read too much into it yet, the idea just seemed really good. BTW, here is a link to CNN's report on the Tax credits on hybrids.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/tipsandadvice/12/21/hybrid_tax_credits/index.html

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

I would lokk at selling the left kidney for a "true" rear wheel drive muscle car. I don't want twin turb or crap like that though.

[LA_MERC_BS]

Saw on the news this morning that the IRS is giving tax breaks in 06 for buying Hybrids. In the neighborhood of between $4000.00 and $2000.00 depanding on the model purchased. This will only last for the first 65000 sold.

[LA_MERC_BS]

Found an article on it.

http://www.hybridcars.com/news/news.php?news_id=539

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

I don't care, but that is sweet. The bad ting is that there is no such thing as a good 2 wheel drive truck up here, and cars are to small. My wife was looking at the escapes last year, but after the "dolphin Killer" she will only go Suburban 4WD.