Question for the car experts here...

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Ok, the last couple of days my truck has been acting retarded, and I'm just wondering if anyone here has any ideas.

Ok - here's the deal. My truck is a '89 Toyota pickup with a 22R 4Cly. Engine and a 4 speed manual transmission. The problem has something to do with the clutch. It will do one of 3 things. It with either.

A) Work normally
B) If I Push in the clutch it doesn't disengage, like - I can stop with the truck in gear, but with the clutch pressed down it will choke off if I don't knock it into neutral. I can then pump the clutch once and it will work normally after that.
OR
C) The clutch will partially disengage, but the "catch spot" (not sure of the correct term for that is) will be right at the floor, and the truck will want to take off as soon as I come off the clutch just a smidgen.

The "B" and "C" ailments seem to happen more if I hold the clutch down for a second. Say I'm at a stop sign or stop light and keep it in 1st with the clutch down ready to take off, it will either want to take off at the floor, or will choke off. However, if I sit at the light with my foot off the clutch, and the transmission in neutral, and then at the last minute shift into 1st and take off, it seems to work normally with the "catch spot" in the correct place, about 1/3 of the way off the floor.

The clutch itself seems strong, it just seems like it's something either in the linkage or the hydrolics. Do clutch master cylenders go bad like Brake master cylenders?

Anyway - just wondering if anyone has any ideas. If any of the SC car guys want to stop by and drive it, just give me a call at 664-4557 - it's really hard to describe how the clutch feels when it acts retarded...lol. - you kinda have to feel it for yourself.

Anyway - thanks in advance for any thoughts.

j.

[LA_MERC_Nutria]

Yes they do. Check your cluctch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

What would I check for - the master cylender is full of fluid. Can they also get air in the lines like a brake system, and would that cause these symptoms? If so how do you bleed a clutch system? Also - where is the slave cylender usually? Is it down near the transmission, or would it most likely be near the Master Cylender? I really need to get a chilton manual on this truck. It seems simple to work on, at least what I've done so far, I just don't know where stuff is at.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Also - ment to add - when it's acting retarded, the pedal dosn't feel right coming back up. It almost feels like it's stuck down, like there is no back pressure on it coming back up - I know I didn't describe that well...but that's the best I can put into words.

[LA_MERC_Nutria]

Slave should be mounted on the transmission. As far as the master, check the fluid. Sometimes if it is low it could cause that problem. If it is low it might be bypassing, which means it needs changing. Dont let anyone talk you into rebuilding the parts its easier, cheaper and saves time just to get them new or even remanufactured.

[LA_MERC_Nutria]

I just checked on prices for those parts. They should run you about 30 bucks a peice if you need to change em.

[LA_MERC_Sabre]

or you can get suckered for 600 bucks to get new hydraulics put in.....we live and learn, we live and learn.....

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

LMAO - if someone wants to get $600, they are going to have to squeeze at the abdomen and hope something pops out!

[LA_MERC_Sabre]

lol, true dat....

I was in a bind that day, my in-laws were down from Canada and I didn't have another vehicle to fit everyone. I didn't have alot of time to tinker around and try to fix the problem myself. I think if I would have changed a 30 cent o-ring, my problems would have solved. I kept losing compression in my clutch.

[LA_MERC_Shadow]

I had an 86 toyota pick-up with the same problems. I changed the slave cylinder on the transmission and it worked fine afterward. It didn't take that long to do either; pretty simple.

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

I had the same problem in my 89 Mazda 2200. Replaced the slave cylinder and blead the line and it worked like a charm. Easy fix

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Thanks for all the advice guys!

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

I guess I should update this - the damn thing has quit doing it completly.

It's been working totally beautiful for nearly a week now.

[LA_MERC_Andyconda]

From the description Jayson it does sound like the slave cylinder. To educate you a little these are the parts of a manual transmission. You have a dry plate somtimes refered to as a pressure plate, a clutch disk that has a splinned hub which allows it to slide along the splines of the transmission input shaft, and a hydraulic sysetm. This hydraulic system is used to move the clutch disk and pressure playe via hydraulic pressure. The hydraulic pressure is controlled by a clutch pedal, a master cylinder, a fluid resevoir, and the slave cylinder (which is your release cylinder). It is this slave (or release cylinder) that is more than likely causing your problems. When you depress your clutch pedal it should push a pushrod with brake fluid (yes you use DOT 3 brake fluid in your master and slave cylinders) inside the master cylinder applying hydraulic pressure against the release bearing (also refered to as your throw out bearing) which pushes against the diaphram fingers of the clutch pressure plate. Don't think your alone in describing clutch problems as for all the ones I've worked on there is always a terminology inconsistency describing clutch components because common names are different for different manufactures (Mianly a foriegn to domestic inconsistency). For instance, A driven plate is sometimes referd to as a clutch plate or a clutch disk. Like I said earlier the release bearing is sometimes called the throw out bearing (I call it the throw out bearing). And like I said some people say release cylinder but I call it a slave cylinder. Both the slave cylinder and master cylinder are easy components to change, HOWEVER on some vehicles like my 2000 F-150 the engineers decided to protect the slave cylinder from the elements and it is actually mounted INSIDE the transmission. I did have to replace mine and had to drop the transmission down to do it and this is a little more involved. But in your case I think most 4 cylinder vehicles have the slave cylinder mounted somewhere on the transmission housing itself, so if your problem comes back I would look at that first.

Now that all that is said here's what you do. This would be the standard check any service technician would follow: First check the fluid level in the master cylinder, which it sounds like you did and the level is fine. Second check what they call "CLUTCH SPIN-DOWN TIME" by running the engine at normal idle speed with the transmission in neutral (clutch pedal up, engaged), then disengage the clutch pedal (pedal down) wait several seconds and shift the transmission into reverse. NO grinding noise should be heard. If you do hear some it means you have a bad pressure plate or clutch disk. Third check for complete clutch release. Do this by running the engine with the parking brake applied to prevent vehicle movement and hold the clutch pedal approximately 1/2 inch from the floor. Shift the transmission between 1st and reverse several times. If the shift is rough you have component failure. Lastly inspect the pivot bushing at the top of the clutch pedal to make sure there is no binding or excessive play. I hope this helps. I have worked on many cars and trucks in my life time and could help you tremendously if I were close. I'm a typical southern shade tree mechanic and love to tinker with things. Internal combustion engines can seem intemedating especially with todays ellectronics but with a good book like a Haynes Repair Manual that you can get for 8 dollars at any auto parts store can guide you step by step to fix most problems. I hope it continues to work well for you but from experience I can tell you that it will most likely NOT. Let me know if I can help any more. Good luck Jayson.