Politics

[zen]

I've noticed there's quite a few Bush votes around these forums, and lots of Kerry flaming, but I haven't really seen a whole lot (any?) discussion on why people plan on voting the way they do. As a bleeding heart liberal, I'm curious what issues are important to you and why you'd vote Bush over Kerry (and the few people here voting Kerry, why you're voting for him over Bush.)

I'm voting for Kerry, and I'll be the first to admit he wouldn't have been my first choice to get the Democratic party's nomination, but I feel he's the lesser of two evils in this election.

The issues that most concern me are, in no particular order: The Patriot Act, stem cell research, gay marriage (even though I'm straight), abortion (even though I'm male), Iraq, health care, and taxes/the economy.

On Iraq, I'll say that regardless of what I've heard both candidates say in the debates, I don't think either of them will handle the current situation there dramatically different than the other person, and can't really base my vote on it.

As for the other issues, I'll go into my opinions on them if anyone wants/cares, but for now I'll just say that I agree with Kerry's stance on most of them more than Bush.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to change your vote, I'm not planning on trolling you for your opinions, I'm just curious what issues are important to people and why they're voting the way they are.

[LA_MERC_Captain_Obvious]

Everyone agrees with Kerry's stance on the issues. if you have an opinion, no matter what it is, he will agree with you.

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=5880

[npor]

I knew you would post that CO lol

[LA_MERC_Diesel]

lmfao, nice one C.O.
yeah Zen the stem cell research..lmao, with Kerry as Pres Superman would be flying again, just ask Edwards, he will confirm it
Even though Cristopher R. advised in many articles that stem cell research would do nothing for his case...lol what a bunch of morons

[LA_MERC_Sabre]

i'll vote bush because kerry is an idiot...i have a more in-depth and meaningful answer, but i don't really feel like typing it all out....k thanks. And gay marriage should be banned.

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

Basicaly what Zen said is my thoughts on the whole thing.

(watch me piss off 99% of the forums with this next comment)

Bush is too much of a religious nut. Religion has ZERO place in politics. You wanna Bible thump, do it on Sunday but come Monday morning, leave it on the nighstand.

[NTuser]

Currently, I do not like either one of them. Now, I did not say hate them, I said I do not like them, big difference, so please do not go off on a rant about me being a Bush Basher or Kerry Hater , it just defeats the entire purpose of me posting, not to mention the entire idea of what our Country is founded on, a.k.a freedom of speech .

Before and after 9/11 I was a strong Bush supporter, but in last 5 months I have not been impressed with this administration at all, and now I no longer even consider myself a strong Republican, more independent at the moment, that is until my old party decides to run some one I can believe in. As for Kerry, he is just not what I would call Presidential material. He focused too much on the swift boat scandal in the beginning and his choice for a VP is a little weak in my opinion. His record as well is not that great.

I have watched all three debates. I have also read all the facts posted after the debates about how both sides have used misleading facts and half truths to make me think they are so much better than the other guy. I am looking forward to 2008, maybe both parties will be able to find someone worth promoting, and we need more choices.

Here is an example of a review done on both after the last debate. I have had enough of this bending of the facts from both of them. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6243846/


Here is who I wish would win. http://www.durdenforamerica.com/

[NTuser]

Basicaly what Zen said is my thoughts on the whole thing.

(watch me piss off 99% of the forums with this next comment)

Bush is too much of a religious nut. Religion has ZERO place in politics. You wanna Bible thump, do it on Sunday but come Monday morning, leave it on the nighstand.


Does not piss me off, I agree. It needs to be left out of the decision making process. Religious influence is exactly what our founding fathers were afraid of, that is why there is suppose to be a division between church and state. I am very religious, but even I understand how passions of the soul, or extreme faith can lead to unsound decisions.

[Uther]

Well Cowboy, I am one of the 1% who is not pissed off at you. I agree with you and zen.

Besides, Bush needs the time off because "It's hard, hard work!"
.
.
.
.
"Believe me, It's hard, hard work!"

So I believe he really deserves the next four years off.

Also, I could care less about gays. Fix my medical insurance, it goes up in price every year and my benefits go down every year.

[[uGa] Saint]

pick up a "bush-isms" book... thats why im not voting for him.

chief diplomat should be able to speak well.

[Slayer]

You wanna Bible thump, do it on Sunday but come Monday morning, leave it on the nighstand.

I don't know about you Cowboy, but my religion does not have an on/off switch. This isn't a flame, it's just that most of the issues being discussed aren't really Bible-based: medicare, war, taxes, Patriot Act, etc.

The only real ones that could be considered are the abortion and gay marriage. But when it comes down to it, the President really isn't in control of them, because he can be vetoed. Besides, states are voting for or against gay marriage as we speak.

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

Don't forget stem cell research....

The fact religion DOESN'T have an on/off switch is PRECISLY why I'm not voting Bush.

Support your local atheist.

By definition religion is based on blind faith. I like my leaders to have vision (pun intended).

Unfortunately you have to say you beleive in God to even THINK about being elected for any office because religion is so entrenched in our society.

[LA_MERC_Captain_Obvious]

Kerry is a puppet, alot of different people stick their hand up his rear end and make him talk the way they want him too.

Bush is not the best at communicating in public, but he cares more about the country than himself.

As I watch the debates and coverage of the race, I can't believe that anyone can take kerry seriously, then it frightens me that I realize people are believing what he says and that he may have a chance in the election. will be just like having bill clinton back in office, if not worse.

It's a shame that there are a ton of people (both Dem and Rep.) out there that would do a better job than either kerry or Bush, but the way the system works prevents them from ever having even the slightest chance.

[LA_MERC_Diesel]

pick up a "bush-isms" book... thats why im not voting for him.

chief diplomat should be able to speak well.

you tard, Kerry is a two sided dumb-arse, I am pretty sure Bush had better grades than Kerry at Yale

what a great way to make you decission???
Saint you never quite suprising us in these issues.

Uther, Kerry will just raise your taxers and not lower your healthcare...wake up people...so then you will have even less money?!?!?!?!?!?!
wtf is Kerry going to do about heathcare, wtf is W going to do about it?? they like those befroe them will not do crap, they get tooo much money from the drug companies these are both politicians, first and foremest!!
/me puts toothpick in your eyes to open them....youg people..you would hope for a better drive, for them to want to take care of themselves, and not depend on government. :dunno

[LA_MERC_Spark]

amen Scott! too much religion... Faith based iniative = crap ... removal of safe sex adds on government sites like the f'ing CDC because it promotes sex = just plain stupid... Stem cell research is a big issue for me.. I don't give a crap if it woulda helped stupidman or not... many others will benefit... Foreign policy is not even an issue .. We are already commited, and the ONLY choice is to finish up... We're in a big pile of crap if we don't end up with some sort of stabalize democracy in Iraq... That is the whole point of us being there... I can't see voting either way at this point....

[SnAkEbItE]

I will have to pray and see if I need to weigh in on this or not.

[Daedelus]

well i have to say that iam going for kerry. mostly because i think bush is the village idiot and i feel bad i voted for him last time thinking that well clinton lyed to us and we couldnt do worse so i voted for bush now i look back on that and see hey we did do worse.so maybe my thinking is flawed and well do worse again when kerry gets elected, but i guese ill have to live with that and just give up voting lol.

[Uther]

you tard, Kerry is a two sided dumb-arse, I am pretty sure Bush had better grades than Kerry at Yale

what a great way to make you decission???
Saint you never quite suprising us in these issues.

Uther, Kerry will just raise your taxers and not lower your healthcare...wake up people...so then you will have even less money?!?!?!?!?!?!
wtf is Kerry going to do about heathcare, wtf is W going to do about it?? they like those befroe them will not do crap, they get tooo much money from the drug companies these are both politicians, first and foremest!!
/me puts toothpick in your eyes to open them....youg people..you would hope for a better drive, for them to want to take care of themselves, and not depend on government. :dunno

First I have no illusion that the government has any care for me. Politics is like the WWF. You have to sides, neither is black or white just shades of gray. People hate one side and love the other, but in reality both sides go out drinking with each other when the people are not looking. It gives people the idea that they have control when in all reality they have none.

So Bush wont raise my taxes but the national debt will keep growing and someone sooner or later will have to raise them to pay off the debt.

Bush having better grades, the same man that said C students can be President.

As for as a better drive, I have put myself through college and have a nice job, but my insurance still isn't good. The government can regulate cable and phone bills, but cant regulate the insurance companys. I understand that big bussisness run the government; so any change is doubtful. I just choose the lesser of the two evils as I see them.

As for as the god issue, thats just comfort so that people can live without the fear of the nothingness that might await you after death. People pray all the time, people pray for who will be President, that a hurricane wont hit, for a football team to win, etc. Most of those prayers have someone else praying against those same prayers for their own benefits. Thats why god needs to say out of government.

[[uGa] Saint]

you tard, Kerry is a two sided dumb-arse, I am pretty sure Bush had better grades than Kerry at Yale

what a great way to make you decission???
Saint you never quite suprising us in these issues.

Diesel, this is exactly why I am never serious about politics on this forums anymore. We should be respectful, and name calling is not necessary. Neither Kerry nor Bush are perfect, both have innumerable flaws, so there is DEFINETELY no "right" side to take. Respect people's opinions, sheesh.

[LA_MERC_Dirge]

So Bush wont raise my taxes but the national debt will keep growing and someone sooner or later will have to raise them to pay off the debt.



I won't say much to this conversation (I don't have the energy today). But I will say that the above quote is a common misconception resulting from applying micro-economics to a macro-economical scale- This is basically a refute of Keynesian econmics. The proven premise is that as taxes remain low, it spurs economic growth on a GNP scale and the resulting tax revenue from increased re-investment in the economy (i.e. spending and small business growth) more than offsets deficits amassed during the economic downturns. It has worked everytime it has been tried, it just takes a little while and some discipline. Something else to chew on is that while the deficit is the largest figure in hostory. As a percentage of the GNP (a better figure to compare to historic levels) it is not the highest in hostory, far from it. Anyhoo, I'm rambling now. I just wanted to make that statement, because it irks me when politicians try to pin it into something it is not. :)

[Uther]

Ok Dirge I wont argue about tax because you seem to have a higher education in that area than me. I am glad that you presented a statement like that because it explains stuff to me that I didnt know. Because of you, I will look more into that and probably never make the statement I made again.

[LA_MERC_Dirge]

Um, I'm hoping that wasn't sarcasm, I wasn't intending to be de-meaning if I did come across as such. If it wasn't and you would like me to expound on anything else in what I said, I would be more than happy to do so. :D

[Uther]

No dude, I was quite serious. I repect that you put a intellegent statement, instead of telling me I was stupid. I wont argue a subject if I can tell that someone knows the area better than me.

[LA_MERC_Dirge]

Oh, okay, cool then. It's been a long day and I think I need a soda pop with the foam on top to clear my mind! ;)

[LA_MERC_Diesel]

Diesel, this is exactly why I am never serious about politics on this forums anymore. We should be respectful, and name calling is not necessary. Neither Kerry nor Bush are perfect, both have innumerable flaws, so there is DEFINETELY no "right" side to take. Respect people's opinions, sheesh.


I am sorry hopefully you did not cry too much, you can feel free to make your false statements all you want, with no reprecutions, I will not even look at this forum again, it just makes me mad what I read, so I do not want to offend you by calling you a tard, I am sorry, I should understand by your political stance not to make comments like that.

I just wish Dirge had time to school the liberals, so you could better undertstand the lies that you hear.

[[uGa] Saint]

I am sorry hopefully you did not cry too much, you can feel free to make your false statements all you want, with no reprecutions, I will not even look at this forum again, it just makes me mad what I read, so I do not want to offend you by calling you a tard, I am sorry, I should understand by your political stance not to make comments like that.

I just wish Dirge had time to school the liberals, so you could better undertstand the lies that you hear.

dont worry, i didnt cry at all. I just have realized that some people take politics to heart, when they should really understand it is as any other academia... just an idea that has yet to prove a final answer. Saying one side or the other is completely wrong just proves your ignorance. Its extremely irritating to hear people yell at others about what they know is "right".

diesel, as you know, i think your a cool guy, i just dont agree with the way you present "political arguments". ill never agree with someone who tries to force their opinion down my throat by name calling.