Video card question

[CajunTech]

What do you think is better?

AGP 256MB X800 Pro

or

PCI Express 128MB X800 XT


This is the rest of system..

Pentium 4 3.4ghz (800mhz FSB)
1GB DDR 400mhz if AGP or 1GB DDR2 533mhz if PCI Express
1 x 160GB SATA hard drive if AGP or 2 x 160GB SATA hard drives RAID 0 if PCI Express
Sound Blaster Audigy 2
CD-RW (Have a DVD-Burner on another box)


I'm leaning towards the PCI Express system since it's newer technology, but wondering how the video cards stack up.

[LA_MERC_Captain_Obvious]

the x800XT is a much stronger performer and higher end card than the x800Pro no matter what the memory size.

if you can get either, go for the PCIe instead of AGP. all the next generation vid cards will be PCIe based, so when you're ready to upgrade down the road, you won't have to get a whole new system again to do it.

on the Intel, make sure you get a board with the 925 chipset instead of the 915.

[CajunTech]

My mistake on the X800 card. It is an X800 SE (Dell system).

I looked up some benchmarks. Couldn't find many, but this is what I found.

A (Dell I am looking at) 3.0ghz, 1GB system with X800 SE card gets about 8000 on 3DMark2003.

Systems with P4 3.2-3.4ghz, 1GB memory, and an X800 Pro (AGP) 256Mb card get between 8000 and 12000 on 3DMark2003.

If Dell wouldn't want $300 more for thier flagship PC (damn blue case must be expensive) this would an easy decision. The above specs with an X800XT 256MB PCIE. Stupid dell hehe...

[LA_MERC_Captain_Obvious]

tip: stay away from any ATI card that ends in SE.
for that money, why not build your own? I'm sure you can do it with the help of all the geeks around here (I'm only a half-breed geek, but I've built many many systems myself) you could get the system that has everything you want in it.

[[C.O.P.S] InfectioN]

buying from Dell = screwed

i put together a system that would pretty much be a doom 3 killer...

then i went to dell and put that same system together

difference?

dell ='d more than $500 more

what do you get with that 500? "support"

and does dell tell you what RAM you are getting? what motherboard you are getting?

sure they tell you the vid card and the cpu. but i hope you arent getting value ram brotha

post a link to the dell system you are wanting... we'll go from there

[[uGa] Saint]

agreed, building a system lets you know exactly whats there and makes it easier to diagnose a problem if something happens. Building a computer can cost less AND get you better parts, that way you will be ready to upgrade when the time comes and not have to worry about space or compatibility.

and listen to infection and post a link, but be careful, he is a nub.

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

Agreed again. Building your own system is the only way to really know your system. If you build a PC, it takes a lot of the mystery and confusion out of the thing and makes it so that if there is ever a problem, you are more likely able to fix it yourself instead of having to rely on "support" (besides, isn't that what us computer geeks are for?!)

Oh, and Value RAM is the debil!

[-=C.O.P.S=-KOrruptED]

I think PCI Exp is suppose to be 4x faster than 8xAGP and Don't buy a Dell, POS and the packaged software. RAWWRR

[CajunTech]

I've pretty much built all of my personal systems since 95. Sold about 60 self-built machines in the local area. About a year ago I started selling Dell/HP/Compaq/Toshiba instead of building them. I do still build custom machines for friends or for my personal use. For my side business I tend to lease/purchase Dell equipment. Basically I have $1800-$2000 budgeted for a new Dell system (no monitor needed).

I had ordered a gigabit switch, 2 gigabit adapters, and a Radeon X800Pro 256MB ($333.00 cheapest around) earlier this week from Dell. Then I ordered a Dimension 4600 (DDR/AGP) with plans to install the card myself. This morning I canceled everything except the switch and the gigabit adapters. Adapters came in yesterday. Switch should be here today and since the adapters were on the same order as the X800 they canceled that order and told me to just keep the 2 gigabit adapters (about $100) at no cost to me.

Now this is what I am currently looking at:

Dell Dimension 8400 ($1700-$1800)
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533mhz (2x512)
128MB PCI Express x16 Radeon x800 SE (256-bit, runs faster than a 9800XT, not sure on pipes, etc.)
320GB RAID 0 (2 x 160GB SATA HDDs)
3.5 Floppy and 64MB USB key drive
48x CD-RW
Sound Blaster Audigy 2
15" LCD Monitor


A couple things:

- No DVD-Burner since my old PC is going to the wife and it has one on it.
- 15" LCD was only $100 so added it. Can be used on my test bed. I run dual CRTs (19" and 17").
- An out the box 8400 with a P4 3.0 cpu, single ATA drive, 1GB memory, and the X800SE video card gets 7900-8000 on 3DMark2003. I'm guessing I should get a slightly higher score. I get 4000ish on my current system.
- Building the above Dell system through NewEgg (using value ram and cheapest components) comes out to $1675 (after shipping). That is substituing a Radeon 9800XT for the X800SE and no 15" LCD.

I'm heavily considering getting the Dell system now and upgrading graphics when the next generation of cards come out. Then maybe upgrade the wife's PC to DDR2/PCIe and pass her the X800SE. Course she's making me buy her a laptop for school next year.. DOH...



*Damn.. type a lot when bored at work*

[[uGa] Saint]

have you seen benchmarks on the SE? usually they are pieces of junk, i dont know if this is different then old SE cards, but you should look into it if you havent already

[CajunTech]

I think PCI Exp is suppose to be 4x faster than 8xAGP and Don't buy a Dell, POS and the packaged software. RAWWRR


I had 2 Dell 2.8 (800mhz FSB), 512MB, 40GB boxes and they worked pretty good. I got a good deal like $1200 for the 2 PCs and 2 17" LCD monitors. I sold one of the Dells and both LCDs for a lil over the orginal cost of everything so I now have one of the Dells that didn;t cost me anything hehe. People use it when we LAN for CS (onboard graphics) and it also plays Doom 3 multiplayer pretty decent.

Now I have sold some of the $350 Dell boxes to people as internet PCs and I have to agree they suck by my standards, but they are awesome performance for the price.

As for the packaged software (the scourge of PCs)... First thing I do with any Dell I get is drop a fresh copy of XP on it.

[CajunTech]

']have you seen benchmarks on the SE? usually they are pieces of junk, i dont know if this is different then old SE cards, but you should look into it if you havent already


I was thinking the same thing. The only write up I saw was that it was the lowend of the ATI X800s..

I saw 2 forums yesterday (can;t find the damn things today) where people were impressed by the performance and didn't expect that from an SE card.

Video Card Comparison Chart (http://www.pcvsconsole.com/features/video/)

From what I've read it falls between the 9800XT and the X800Pro on that chart. Here's what i know about the card:
Memory - 128MB DDR SDRAM
Clock Spd - 425mhz
BUS Spd - PCI Express x16
RAMDAC - Dual 400mhz

[LA_MERC_Captain_Obvious]

The biggest thing about building it yourself or buying from dell is the long term. Later on, it will be easier to upgrade your PC if you build it yourself. You can't swap mother boards in a Dell, I don't think you can upgrade the PSU in a Dell, You can't add (depending on the product line) more than 2 HD's in a Dell, along with a lot of other stuff.

I like Dell alot for business use. I have our company primarily a dell shop, that's all the we buy hardware from now. but for personal use, I would never consider a Dell PC. even though building my own PC would be slightly cheaper or maybe even the same price, later on when I get the itch to upgrade it would be so much easier and cheaper. plus you have a lot more leadway when choosing the components and brand names when building yourself. You can get a case that will meet your needs. If you may want to eventually add several HD's, you can do that. you may want to put a 74gb Raptor as your boot drive and have 2 x 160 SATA HD's in Raid 0. Or you may want to add a Hardcano (control center for monitoring Temps and controlling fan speeds) in a large drive bay slot, you don't have room on the Dell for that.

Also, I would seriously recommend staying away from the x800SE. if you have to have something in that price range, get the 6800GT. If you have to have the PCIe, go with the x800XT. As of now, there is no significant performance difference between AGP and PCIe, infact the PCIe actually performs slightly less than AGP in certain instances. However, the next generation of video cards will start taking advantage of the PCIe and they will start to solidly out perform AGP cards (I would wager money that in 2 product cycles of Vid cards, there will be no AGP version of High end, and maybe no AGP of mid level either. Only the low end will still be made in AGP)

[CajunTech]

I don't really do much upgrading anymore unless I buy a new system. No matter if I buy the Dell or the home-build I doubt I'd add anything to it (lots of external goodies and almost 1TB of storage space across my home network).

I think I'll just buy the Dell now for business use (can game on it for a while). Then sell my current personal PC and build a new one later. I've got a raptor drive in my current PC. The only things I'd keep out of that machine would be the raptor and some 8MB cache drives (80GB and 200GB).

[CajunTech]

Finally ordered it.. now for the wait.

P4 3.2ghz
1GB DDR2 533mhz memory
320GB (2 160GB SATA drives RAID 0)
ATI X800XT 256MB PCIE
Sound Blaster Audigy 2
16x DVD+RW dual layer burner
A perty blue case with lighting, cooling, etc..
A free junk printer

925 chipset

Wife got it through home account for cheaper than I was going to pay through business account without the raided drives, free printer, and DVD burner.

[-=C.O.P.S=-KOrruptED]

nice, how much was it?

[CajunTech]

$2100.00 was around $2500 with 15% off and an additional -$100 from a coupon.

[[sG] Dutchman]

:{ well in that case I'd be better building mesalf a computer *Dutchman smashs his song and try to glue part together*

[[sG] Dutchman]

sony not song sony well any why I though People saying that PCI cards are slower than a AGP

[CajunTech]

NOOOOOO.... Not that song again...

:shootme: :shootme: :shootme: :shootme: :shootme: :shootme:


PCI is slower than AGP. This is the new PCI Express. A lot more bandwidth. even tho it isn't really used yet :) Same as 4x and 8x AGP.. Not really any difference.

[CajunTech]

Dutch I hope you can read this.

My browser keeps getting errors trying to load your sig with the music in it. Not sure if anyone else is experiencing this problem or not. Basically I can't see any posts below your first one with music in any thread. Browser just gives and error. Can't PM you either hehe.

*Edited cause I mispelled half the darn post*

[[sG] Dutchman]

I toke that song thinng off I still don't knowq what to do he said pcpoy a paste uhg aaaaa yeah But I have no clue what hes saying to me it would help if he would tell me more

[[sG] Dutchman]

yes I love save a horse ride a cowboy this is me watching the music *Dutchman looks at TV admiring the chicks in the video :eek: :crazyeye :{ *


if your think there naked well.....YOUR WRONG they just too hot in cloths

[[sG] Dutchman]

oh yes I almost forgot if you want to see this video go here http://www.cmt.com/artists/az/big_rich/artist.jhtml?_requestid=155111#

go down to videos and clcik save a horse ride a cowboy full verison

[CajunTech]

Will check it out when I get home to see what all this fuss is about.

[Uther]

Girls in those suits are nice.

[Uther]

Cajun stop trying to get in top 10 most internet users in your company and get to work!

[CajunTech]

hey.. Gotta be the best at something. Might as well be the highest internet bill...

[LA_MERC_Nutria]

How can you be certified cajun?? It's a lie I tell you.

[[sG] Dutchman]

I like that song I have the CD lol my whole block was complaning about that song becuse I had it pumped up so what lol